is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra brother

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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby mandala » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:56 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:actually ive known him for many years. hes the one who introduced me to buddhism. well there is no point in giving victory to him, hes taking it as granted. it matters cause there is no real communication in this situation. in example this ''fight'' started when i argumented with proof that one person is a fraud and not authentic lama. and as reaction he started shouting at me calling me angrily with different names and then ejecting me from the group conversation and blocking me personally. so there is no option to talk with him.


No offense, but maybe you were both jerks. If he's your friend and this Lama is someone dear to him, then it's just not cool to say 'hey, your Lama is a fake' even if you feel you have proof. If it's not someone he's close to, he obviously took it personally and reacted badly.

When you say he blocked you...you mean online? I don't think it matters who's 'right' - Is there anyway to contact him & apologize for hurting his feelings?
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:57 pm

[28.10.2013 22.59.25] i told you ass hat focus on something productive
[28.10.2013 22.59.38] i didn't give you the link because i knew all you'd do is go and go oh ho see see she's a fraud she's a fraud
[28.10.2013 22.59.49] you're not even a neophyte
[28.10.2013 22.59.53] you're not even a newbie
[28.10.2013 22.59.56] youre a no-bie
[28.10.2013 22.59.57] nobody
[28.10.2013 23.00.14] you have no frak room whatsoever to point your shit covered finger at anybody but yourself
[28.10.2013 23.00.19] so shut the frak up and stop talking shit

this came as a result when i argumented that a certain lama who has been discussed here on this forum with proper evidence thats she is a fraud. this was his response to me. the only point i wanted to make that it was not an authentic lung or transmission of a text and this hate and abusive speech is what i get in return. this is defenitely looking down at the person in my opinion. and i do not get such anger or ill speech from any other buddhist person that i know. still he deems himself as a high level practitioner and makes others believe he is. there is a lot more to this also about this relationship with negative communication but i just want to be sure what constitutes a samaya breach.

i consider this as not a proper conduct towards vajra brothers, and after that he blocked me, and i asked my friend to ask him and he said he didnt feel like talking to me.

this same kind of pattern repeats itself over and over again where in due time he gets over his anger? and resentment? and allows me back in to the group conversation.

i understand that from one point of view, this and earlier conflicts between us can be seen as him criticizing me, but when its one way conversation where someone throws his judgement towards you and looks down upon you hatefully its not much use or benefit.

if someone thinks this is not angry or hate talk from him please correct me.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:58 pm

mandala wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:actually ive known him for many years. hes the one who introduced me to buddhism. well there is no point in giving victory to him, hes taking it as granted. it matters cause there is no real communication in this situation. in example this ''fight'' started when i argumented with proof that one person is a fraud and not authentic lama. and as reaction he started shouting at me calling me angrily with different names and then ejecting me from the group conversation and blocking me personally. so there is no option to talk with him.


No offense, but maybe you were both jerks. If he's your friend and this Lama is someone dear to him, then it's just not cool to say 'hey, your Lama is a fake' even if you feel you have proof. If it's not someone he's close to, he obviously took it personally and reacted badly.

When you say he blocked you...you mean online? I don't think it matters who's 'right' - Is there anyway to contact him & apologize for hurting his feelings?


he has no connection with the lama. just one youtube video. yes , we live in other countries so we communicate online only.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:06 pm

Much ado about nothing.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:09 pm

I agree, personally I think it's best to let it go in favor of maintaining harmony in the sangha unless it's something that simply must be addressed. It's not always easy of course.

Seriously, best to not get pulled it at all if you can, let someone else handle meting out justice in the world. Also a bad thing about internet communities, people often feel entitled to talk in a way they never would face to face.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:14 pm

yes its very hard when someone is fixed on his view and ways and must protect his image in the group.

i think it must be addressed soon and if i get no response or i get reblocked then i will quit the group.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:18 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:yes its very hard when someone is fixed on his view and ways and must protect his image in the group.

i think it must be addressed soon and if i get no response or i get reblocked then i will quit the group.



Yeah power stuff within the sangha is an ugly thing. I do my best to be the guy at the back of the room, so to speak lol. There'
s always gonna be people like that though, and they need the Dharma too, there is no option but to deal with them as painlessly as possible I think.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Adamantine » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:29 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:yes , we live in other countries so we communicate online only.


Sounds like an easy person to avoid then. I'd avoid them.. you can find more wholesome dharma friends I am sure, than someone who would treat you this way.

That said, it's also better not to be pushy about 'proving' to others that such-and-such lama is a fraud. It is not an unusual topic to generate negative emotions in others. Even if he has never met this person, he may have developed some attachment merely from listening online to teachings, etc.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:37 pm

the easy way would be to quit and leave it at that. leave the group. also not to engage in conversation with him where i would try to make him see the faults that i see in his behavior and conduct. but is it the right thing to do to remain silent, when a dharma practitioner is clearly talking the talk but his actions speak for themselves that hes not walking the walk, but keeps the pride like he is. is the right thing to do to engage in conversation about this matter or keep my mouth shut and leave the group?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:40 pm

I'd try to get along or just leave personally, going on a crusade will probably just end in unhappiness. Especially any group that has a troubled person in a position of leader is probably bound to be more work than it's worth lol...
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby mandala » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:42 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote: and i do not get such anger or ill speech from any other buddhist person that i know. still he deems himself as a high level practitioner and makes others believe he is. there is a lot more to this also about this relationship with negative communication but i just want to be sure what constitutes a samaya breach.


Ouch. Ya know, I'd stop being concerned about who he thinks he is and if he's breaching anything & just steer clear of him because more importantly it's upsetting YOUR mind.
Give yourself a break & find some dharma friends you can enjoy hanging out with... this battle can only end in tears :smile:
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby dzogchungpa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:59 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:
[28.10.2013 22.59.25] i told you ass hat focus on something productive ...

Personally, I wouldn't worry about maintaining "samaya" with someone like that.
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:18 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:the easy way would be to quit and leave it at that. leave the group. also not to engage in conversation with him where i would try to make him see the faults that i see in his behavior and conduct. but is it the right thing to do to remain silent, when a dharma practitioner is clearly talking the talk but his actions speak for themselves that hes not walking the walk, but keeps the pride like he is. is the right thing to do to engage in conversation about this matter or keep my mouth shut and leave the group?
The easiest thing to do is to deal with your behaviour. You were asking if being a jerk is a samaya breach, well disparaging your vajra siblings (see the large bit) is also a samaya breach.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby anjali » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:21 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:yes its very hard when someone is fixed on his view and ways and must protect his image in the group.

i think it must be addressed soon and if i get no response or i get reblocked then i will quit the group.


Just think of the guy as a wrathful deity helping you work on your "stuff". Feed him, learn the lesson, and move on. ;)
  • The object of the game is to go on playing it. --John Von Neumann
  • All activities are like the games children play. If started, they can never be finished. They are only completed once you let them be, like castles made of sand. --Khenpo Nyoshul Rinpoche
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:24 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:the easy way would be to quit and leave it at that. leave the group. also not to engage in conversation with him where i would try to make him see the faults that i see in his behavior and conduct. but is it the right thing to do to remain silent, when a dharma practitioner is clearly talking the talk but his actions speak for themselves that hes not walking the walk, but keeps the pride like he is. is the right thing to do to engage in conversation about this matter or keep my mouth shut and leave the group?
The easiest thing to do is to deal with your behaviour. You were asking if being a jerk is a samaya breach, well disparaging your vajra siblings (see the large bit) is also a samaya breach.


yeah good point sherab dorje. i just read the root text of the 37 practices of bodhisattvas and it is said there that never talk about the bad things about others. i butchered it but something like that.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:31 pm

"when focused one the faults of others, one's own toxins flourish"

Or something like that, from the Dhammapada.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:47 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:...not to engage in conversation with him where i would try to make him see the faults that i see in his behavior and conduct.


yeah good point sherab dorje. i just read the root text of the 37 practices of bodhisattvas and it is said there that never talk about the bad things about others. i butchered it but something like that.



You don't have to show this person anything about his faults. Everybody has faults, but pointing to all the faults and explaining them one by one to someone won't help anything. It might make you feel better, but you are not someone he considers to be his teacher in any way, shape, or form, so coming from you it will just sound like you are attempting to be his judge and jury.
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:49 pm

thanks Chokyi for clarifying.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby justsit » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:36 pm

In a situation like the one you describe, I try (that's try) to recall this:

The Eight Lojong Verses of Geshe Langri Tangpa (Dorje Senge)

With the thought of attaining enlightenment for the welfare of beings, who are more precious than a wish-fulfilling jewel, I will constantly practice holding them dear.

Whenever I am with others, I will practice seeing myself as the lowest of all and from the very depth of my heart, I will respectfully hold others as supreme.

In all actions, I will examine my mind and the moment a disturbing attitude arises, endangering myself and others, I will firmly confront and avert it.

Whenever I meet a person of bad nature who is overwhelmed by negative energy and intense suffering, I will hold such a rare one dear, as if I had found a precious treasure.

When others, out of jealousy, mistreat me with abuse, slander and so on, I will practice accepting defeat and offering the victory to them.

When someone I have benefited and in whom I have placed great trust hurts me very badly, I will practice seeing that person as my supreme teacher.

In short, I will offer directly and indirectly every benefit and happiness to all beings, my mothers. I will practice in secret taking upon myself all their harmful actions and sufferings.

Without these practices being defiled by the stains of the eight worldly concerns, by perceiving all phenomena as illusory, I will practice without grasping to release all beings from the bondage of the disturbing, unsubdued mind and karma.
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Re: is there a samaya breach if you're a jerk to vajra broth

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:47 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:thanks Chokyi for clarifying.


You're welcome. You are one of the first people I ever saw take the Drikung Phowa from Garchen Rinpoche and then offer it. I found that very interesting, its good to see that willingness in someone, unfortunately that same good tendency to share with others, even if it is coming from a good place, can also be easily misinterpreted. There would have to be a kind of "boat load" of "skillful means" accompanying what you'd actually communicate to this particular vajra bro at this point, and most of us are somewhat lacking in the "skillful means" department...also he has clearly told you off, so he's already defensive when it comes to things you'd have to say to him. Your tendency to explain or share things would probably just backfire this time around, it may also cause him to reify an even more defensive position concerning you. Maybe he'd ask you to just leave this group if you disagree with him again, not to mention the expletives you would probably incur if you try to explain your side to him.

:techproblem:
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