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Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:05 pm
by Dharmaswede

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:18 pm
by KonchokZoepa
that i dont know if it happens at death or not.

but i know that the Drikung Phowa tradition, the sadhana is called Jag-Tsug-Ma and it means standing blade of grass. and when you achieve accomplishment, when you put kusha grass on the top of your head, it stands there like a stick. at least the top of the head has soften or something happened there since when you stick a stick of kusha grass there, it stands by its own.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:48 pm
by ngodrup
Not just in the Drikung P'howa.
Various Nyingma termas demonstrate this phenomenon.
One person I know practiced the Nam Cho P'howa are about 3 days
and the straw -- when it fell out of his head was wet about 1 inch, suggesting
that it was well inside his head. I've seen dozens of people at a Dudjom ter
P'howa retreat showing signs as well...

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:49 pm
by KonchokZoepa
a plastic straw ?

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:43 pm
by disjointed
I have read a blister on the head, itching, etc. is the sign that you've prepared the exit route so to speak.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:28 am
by ngodrup
KonchokZoepa wrote:a plastic straw ?
No, a "piece of straw", as opposed to a "piece of grass" --
you know? like the kind of straw a broom is made of?

Kusha grass, maybe, but not the kind of you find in western lawns.
it's a thicker dry stalk that is dropped into the hole and stands up straight.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:00 am
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:25 am
by Rakz
smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!
How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:04 am
by KonchokZoepa
can anyone die without knowing. and i think phowa is actually possible also in the sipa bardo, im not 100% sure on this but since you can achieve nirmakaya liberation in the sipa bardo i would imagine that you could do phowa at that point also.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:07 am
by Simon E.
Nighthawk wrote:
smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!
How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?
Its not a conscious matter. The seeds ripen. It is as natural as the first breath at the beginning of the life span. That needs no cognition either.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:26 am
by Rakz
Simon E. wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!
How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?
Its not a conscious matter. The seeds ripen. It is as natural as the first breath at the beginning of the life span. That needs no cognition either.
Then what is phowa? I thought it was all about ejecting your consciousness into a pure land and that requires some sort of effort. Someone who dies in a car accident wouldn't be able to do that.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:29 am
by Rakz
KonchokZoepa wrote:can anyone die without knowing. and i think phowa is actually possible also in the sipa bardo, im not 100% sure on this but since you can achieve nirmakaya liberation in the sipa bardo i would imagine that you could do phowa at that point also.
sipa bardo?

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:32 am
by Simon E.
What happens follows from receiving the empowerment, which frequently results in a spontaneous opening of the crown ..and from perfecting the Sadhana. It does not simply happen by willpower during the death process..
First you need to find a Phowa Master.
Ayang Rinpoche is one such. There are others.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:40 am
by Simon E.
Just to add I am assuming that the question is coming from a context of the Vajrayana.
The Dzogchen practice differs. But there are limits to what can be discussed about it.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:04 am
by KonchokZoepa
sipa bardo = bardo of becoming


yes , even Garchen Rinpoche says that if you have practiced phowa well then at the time of death you only need to remember amitabha and you automatically go up.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:06 am
by KonchokZoepa
after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:52 pm
by Lhasa
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has experienced this, he describes having the blade of grass in his crown and his teacher left it there several days. Sorry, I don't remember which book he shares this in.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:07 pm
by Schrödinger’s Yidam
Then what is phowa? I thought it was all about ejecting your consciousness into a pure land and that requires some sort of effort. Someone who dies in a car accident wouldn't be able to do that.
I learned it from Gonpo Tsedan R. (Nyingma). He said that there were 5 level of Phowa. 3 levels were for yogis only, and resulted in Dharmakaya, Sambogakaya, and Nirmanakaya realizations while still in alive in this body. The fourth level was what a realized lama did for a deceased person. The fifth level was what he was going to teach us, which was for non-meditators and was to be performed just before death if the person had the luxury of knowing that they were going to die. And yes, you are supposed to eject your consciousness out of the top of your head, hence the story I just told. If you got hit by a bus you wouldn't have time to do it and you were just out of luck.

At the week long course where R. taught it, the only person to get the full sign of accomplishment (a pimple you could stick kusha grass into) was my roommate that only went for one session. So it seems some people "get it" without a lot of effort.
after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.
As you say, that scenario if for an accomplished, a.k.a. "professional" meditator. In the version I was taught (for non-meditators) you've got to have time to do the practice just before death.

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:57 pm
by Lhasa
Lhasa wrote:Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has experienced this, he describes having the blade of grass in his crown and his teacher left it there several days. Sorry, I don't remember which book he shares this in.
I found the story in his book, Wonders of the Natural Mind, in the chapter titled, 'My Life and Experiences of the Teaching.'

Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:12 pm
by KonchokZoepa
smcj wrote:
after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.
As you say, that scenario if for an accomplished, a.k.a. "professional" meditator. In the version I was taught (for non-meditators) you've got to have time to do the practice just before death.
Garchen Rinpoche said in his last teachings that it is enough that you can recall Amitabha, no visualization or recitation is required if you have made the pathway clear and have achieved accomplishment in the practice.