Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

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Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby Terma » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:22 pm

As the topic suggests, I was curious as to what the division is between the two. Of course I know that an empowerment is necessary to engage in each individual practice but having said that, let's say for practices like Manjushri, Chenrezig, etc., that are normally done as a front visualization, when one receives the specific empowerment is it common (or even more beneficial) to do self visualization as that particular deity? I know for practices related to the higher tantra's (Annuyoga/Ati Yoga) the sadhana's are pretty specific in these cases. But what about some of these more common lower tantra practices?

Of course I prefer just a general discussion and nothing too specific that is not appropriate here.

Often the advice is to "ask your teacher" and I will do that in the next while when I see him, but in the meantime I thought I would ask here.

As an aside, As i feel I have a connection to Cherezig, I was curious if most practices related are from the lower tantra's, or are there some that are not?

Thanks for the input.
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Re: Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby Tsultrim T. » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:56 am

It generally has more to do with the level or class of tantra that the practice is from. So many of the practices you mentioned are often from the lower classes of tantra therefore one visualizes the deity in front of oneself rather than oneself as the deity. Generally speaking Chenrezig practices come from the lower tantras but the exception would probably be 1,000 arm Chenrezig practices which are often from higher classes of tantra.
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Re: Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby heart » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:43 am

Terma wrote:
As an aside, As i feel I have a connection to Cherezig, I was curious if most practices related are from the lower tantra's, or are there some that are not?



Of course there is http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/790.html from the Sarma tradition and there is also in the Nyingma tradition.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby ClearblueSky » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:23 am

It depends on the practice, the Chenrezig practice I do starts with you visualizing him in front of you, then it becomes a self visualization, even though I believe it's considered a lower tantra. Also in addition to 1000-arm Chenrezig there is Gyalwa Gyatso in the Kagyu lineage.
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Re: Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:10 am

if you have the empowerment you can do self visualization for chenrezig at least.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Front Visualization vs. Self Visualization

Postby michaelb » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:31 am

If you have the empowerment you do what the sadhana related to the empowerment says. You also follow the instructions of the lama that gave you the empowerment.

I think there must be many termas with self generation Chenrezig sadhanas, as to be considered a great terton your termas must include a Chenrezig sadhana and these would probably be maha or anu yoga.
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