rebirth in dewachen

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rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:59 pm

hi, i would like to make a thread and ask a question that what is the vajrayana view about the necessary requisites or conditions needed to be able to take rebirth in the pure land of sukhavati/dewachen.?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby futerko » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:43 am

I think death is a requisite, or a condition, one of those anyway.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:40 am

very funny futerko. :jumping:
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:45 am

to make it clearer, i think the sutra view is very clear and known to everyone but the vajrayana view is at least unknown to me so i would like to know what view vajrayana has concerning rebirth in dewachen.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby muni » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:05 pm

Hi Konchok,
You can listen and read here. :namaste:

"Prayer to be Reborn in Dewachen (Amitabha Buddha realm)

I prostrate to Buddha Amitabha.
I pray to Uddiyana Pemakara (Guru Rinpoche).
Gracious root guru, hold (insert name or this being or these beings) with your compassion. Lamas of the root lineage, guide (insert name or this being or these beings) on the path. Bless (insert name or this being or these beings) to master the profound path of phowa. By the swift path of phowa, may (insert name or this being or these beings) journey to the celestial realm. Bless (insert name or this being or these beings) to be born in the Land of Bliss, Dewachen. (3X)


Brief Prayer to be Reborn
In the Blissful Pure Land of Amitabha
(Recite three times)
Eh Ma Ho!
In the center is the marvelous Buddha Amitabha of Boundless Light,
On the right side is the Lord of Great Compassion (Chenrezig)
And on the left is Vajrapani, the Lord of Powerful Means.
All are surrounded by limitless Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.
Immeasurable peace and happiness is the blissful pureland of Dewachen.
As all beings pass from samsara,
May he be born there without taking samsaric rebirth.
May he have the blessing of meeting Amitabha face to face.
By the power and blessings of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas
of the ten directions,
May he attain this aspiration without hindrance.
(Recite three times)
Bodhicitta, the excellent and precious mind -
Where it is unborn, may it arise;
Where it is born, may it not decline,
But ever increase higher and higher".

Emaho.

http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/Dewachen.htm

"May own mind and so own Mind
see everyone and everything pure

May all suffering be dissolved
In the Compassionate shining light".
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby muni » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:36 pm

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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:40 pm

thanks , though i have that dewachen prayer in my chenrezig sadhana.

im not looking for prayers, though the first prayer ( where you insert names , prayer ) is great, so :namaste: thankyouu

but im looking for the view point on vajrayana in to rebirth to pure realms.


i have heard that vajrayana disagrees in this view or belief that relying on amitabha will get you there. some vajrayanist for some reason think that there are other prerequisites that must be fulfilled in order to be able to born in a pure realm. and this is my question.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby futerko » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:48 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:thanks , though i have that dewachen prayer in my chenrezig sadhana.

im not looking for prayers, though the first prayer ( where you insert names , prayer ) is great, so :namaste: thankyouu

but im looking for the view point on vajrayana in to rebirth to pure realms.


i have heard that vajrayana disagrees in this view or belief that relying on amitabha will get you there. some vajrayanist for some reason think that there are other prerequisites that must be fulfilled in order to be able to born in a pure realm. and this is my question.


AFAIK it's phowa performed at the time of dying, which the quote muni gave confirms. Did you not receive more detailed instructions when you did your phowa course?
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:53 pm

this topic was not instructed, and im not talking about phowa here.

im talking about the difference of view in mahayana and vajrayana for the prequisites that need to be accomplished for succesful rebirth. and im interested in this topic if we rule out the phowa. i believe in the phowa and that it works just fine. but thats not what i was looking for here. i was thinking in general, not in terms of phowa.

ps, it wasnt actually a course. it was a festival where the transmission of drikung phowa chenmo was transmitted with instructions.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:59 pm

and why it was not instructed for because there is no prerequisites that must be met other that sign of accomplishment in phowa and succesful phowa at the time of death. but this thread is not about phowa. :crying: :rolling: :namaste:
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:06 pm

but maybe there a way to make point at the topic i wanted to discuss. i have come to hear that vajrayana differs in view with mahayana in terms of the prerequisites needed to take rebirth in sukhavati. ( sorry for repeating, to the point -> ) why is it that vajrayana does not believe that 10 repetitions of Amitabhas names or recitation of his name at the time of death will lead you to sukhavati, why does vajrayana see the need for phowa ? this is somewhat the same topic but phrased differently and brought up with a different question. thanks for opening this route :thumbsup:
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby ClearblueSky » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:13 am

I have teachings on phowa and Amitabha, but I'm still not sure I can answer your question perfectly. Personally, I've never seen anything specifically state you can't go to Dewachen by doing the mantra and recalling Amitabha Buddha at the time of death, I think phowa is just a more direct method and guarantee. Vajrayana has a lot of additional death practices, for example, there are all the teachings on the bardo and how to practice it, yet there were plenty said to reach Buddhahood before those teachings were specifically recorded. Personally I think phowa may just be a more direct way (which can be performed on others and can sort of be done while still alive), but it's very possible there's a teaching about it I've missed.
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Re: rebirth in dewachen

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:06 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:but maybe there a way to make point at the topic i wanted to discuss. i have come to hear that vajrayana differs in view with mahayana in terms of the prerequisites needed to take rebirth in sukhavati. ( sorry for repeating, to the point -> ) why is it that vajrayana does not believe that 10 repetitions of Amitabhas names or recitation of his name at the time of death will lead you to sukhavati, why does vajrayana see the need for phowa ? this is somewhat the same topic but phrased differently and brought up with a different question. thanks for opening this route :thumbsup:


The 10 only repetitions is more of Japanese style Pure Land teaching. Except for phowa, Tibetan and Chinese Pure Land practices are quite similar. One needs a very strong aspiration for rebirth in dewachen and keep the five precepts diligently.
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