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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:09 pm 
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heart wrote:
I been taught that a simple altar is a representation of body, speech and mind and then it is complete. So a statue, a text and a crystal or a stupa. If you have no space you can just light a candle and some incense.

/magnus


That sounds good. . . in theory..but then what would I do with all my rupas and tormas, etc. ? I would feel strange having them off in storage collecting dust when they could be there on the altar included as supports for the daily offerings, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:19 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
isnt vajra and bell ok instead of a stupa? doesnt it represent the same thing basically.

I wouldn't say exactly the same. A stupa is more of a representation, whereas a bell and dorje is more of a tool, though I guess you could say they both are representations of enlightened activity and wisdom. Generally, the most minimum is a representation of Shakyamuni, then Shakyamuni with a text and stupa, then expanding from that.


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:20 pm 
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i can affirm that the complete shrine is the body , speech and mind of the buddha, dharma text , rupa , and stupa and i think vajra and bell equals to stupa.

adamantine i dont think you need to put the rupas and tormas away, just to have the full representation of body,speech and mind of the buddha can be there along all the other Dharma objects of the altar.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:22 pm 
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ClearblueSky wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:
isnt vajra and bell ok instead of a stupa? doesnt it represent the same thing basically.

I wouldn't say exactly the same. A stupa is more of a representation, whereas a bell and dorje is more of a tool, though I guess you could say they both are representations of enlightened activity and wisdom. Generally, the most minimum is a representation of Shakyamuni, then Shakyamuni with a text and stupa, then expanding from that.


i dont remember the source, but from what i remember vajra and bell is as good as a stupa.

vajra is symbol of enlightened mind and bell is the wisdom of emptiness, compassion and skillful means together.

like CNN teaches that the center of the vajra is dharmakaya, and upper and down parts represent pure and impure vision, samsara nirvana, duality and non duality etc.

i dont thin vajra and a bell is a mere ''tool''

they are symbols of the enlightened mind.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
heart wrote:
I been taught that a simple altar is a representation of body, speech and mind and then it is complete. So a statue, a text and a crystal or a stupa. If you have no space you can just light a candle and some incense.

/magnus


That sounds good. . . in theory..but then what would I do with all my rupas and tormas, etc. ? I would feel strange having them off in storage collecting dust when they could be there on the altar included as supports for the daily offerings, etc.


I thought you had two shrines?

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:48 pm 
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heart wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
heart wrote:
I been taught that a simple altar is a representation of body, speech and mind and then it is complete. So a statue, a text and a crystal or a stupa. If you have no space you can just light a candle and some incense.

/magnus


That sounds good. . . in theory..but then what would I do with all my rupas and tormas, etc. ? I would feel strange having them off in storage collecting dust when they could be there on the altar included as supports for the daily offerings, etc.


I thought you had two shrines?

/magnus


Yeah I'm just trying to figure out how to consolidate both and
keep it more simple.. We'll see what fits into the shrine "cabinet"
and what doesn't. I have 8 statues at this point..most of them are small.

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Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
heart wrote:

I thought you had two shrines?

/magnus


Yeah I'm just trying to figure out how to consolidate both and
keep it more simple.. We'll see what fits into the shrine "cabinet"
and what doesn't. I have 8 statues at this point..most of them are small.


Btw my Lama says attachment to anything will cause
obscuration at the time of death, even (or especially) attachment
to sacred objects like statues.. So giving a one or two away is always an
option!

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Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:46 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
heart wrote:

I thought you had two shrines?

/magnus


Yeah I'm just trying to figure out how to consolidate both and
keep it more simple.. We'll see what fits into the shrine "cabinet"
and what doesn't. I have 8 statues at this point..most of them are small.


Btw my Lama says attachment to anything will cause
obscuration at the time of death, even (or especially) attachment
to sacred objects like statues.. So giving a one or two away is always an
option!


:smile:

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
Btw my Lama says attachment to anything will cause
obscuration at the time of death, even (or especially) attachment
to sacred objects like statues.. So giving a one or two away is always an
option!


I don't know, I'd be tempted to give away the visitors instead, or attachment to what they think about your altar :P

Just maybe... noone would actually bat an eyelid?

I live in a small apartment and my altar set up is necessarily in my living room (occupying the top of an Ikea low-ish bookcase/room divider) and I've never considered hiding it all. I haven't had any negative reactions to it.. sometimes people even ask about the offerings.

If you manage to consolidate some items into the cabinet, i agree with you that it might still be preferable to have your tormas out.. maybe ontop if it's not too tall?


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:41 pm 
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mandala wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
Btw my Lama says attachment to anything will cause
obscuration at the time of death, even (or especially) attachment
to sacred objects like statues.. So giving a one or two away is always an
option!


I don't know, I'd be tempted to give away the visitors instead, or attachment to what they think about your altar :P

Just maybe... noone would actually bat an eyelid?

I live in a small apartment and my altar set up is necessarily in my living room (occupying the top of an Ikea low-ish bookcase/room divider) and I've never considered hiding it all. I haven't had any negative reactions to it.. sometimes people even ask about the offerings.

If you manage to consolidate some items into the cabinet, i agree with you that it might still be preferable to have your tormas out.. maybe ontop if it's not too tall?


Yeah, I agree but I am not the one that cares. . . marriage is more than a little about compromise and this is my wife's request!
She does have a few friends that don't have the warmest regard for anything religious and of course, we could simply not invite them over ever but that is not her preference. Also, we have landlords (one of which was a monk as a young child in Burma and only remembers being very hungry) and others who may be in and out of the place for basic things. I think it is a good consideration to be cautious about exposing too much esoteric tantric stuff because if people have a negative reaction or view based on whatever background or ignorance, it is not the best for their future connection. Anyway, this is a work in progress, it will take a little creativity and time to nail it just right.. I was just interested if others here had similar predicaments and what their solutions might have been.

If it was only my decision I'd probably just turn it into a dharma center! :tongue:

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Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:35 am 
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Posts: 421
Your lama has instructed you to maintain an elaborate shrine, but "elaborate" is relative, and has to be balanced against what your wife says. Can you reduce your votive objects to what will fit in the shrine cabinet(s)? (The others can be moved to another shelf somewhere else, donated, kept in storage, or whatever.) That sounds promising. Of course your wife will give you better feedback than we can! (Is she okay with you having two shrine cabinets?)

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 Post subject: Re: simple shrines
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
Yeah, I agree but I am not the one that cares. . . marriage is more than a little about compromise and this is my wife's request!
She does have a few friends that don't have the warmest regard for anything religious and of course, we could simply not invite them over ever but that is not her preference. Also, we have landlords (one of which was a monk as a young child in Burma and only remembers being very hungry) and others who may be in and out of the place for basic things. I think it is a good consideration to be cautious about exposing too much esoteric tantric stuff because if people have a negative reaction or view based on whatever background or ignorance, it is not the best for their future connection. Anyway, this is a work in progress, it will take a little creativity and time to nail it just right.. I was just interested if others here had similar predicaments and what their solutions might have been.

If it was only my decision I'd probably just turn it into a dharma center! :tongue:


Ahhh... i see where you're coming from... we don't want your altar leading to the divorce courts! Well I wish you the best in a good compromise with the shrine cabinet.. and look forward to hearing about when you get a bigger house and open your own dharma centre :tongue:


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