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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Karma Dorje wrote:

Why should we privilege 21st century narratives over any other? Demons and menstrual blood speak to me in ways that ethnobotany never will.


It is a very sexist myth which perpetuates the theme of the uncleanliness of the menstrual discharge of women. Having studied many myths of plants, I cannot remember a single one where male demonic seed is cast as responsible for the growth of a plant considered pernicious.

Also, tobacco is the religious plant par excellence of Native Americans, occupying a place similar to juniper in Tibetan culture for rites of cleansing [bsangs] and the removal of pollution.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Karma Dorje wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:
i just ordered ayurvedic cigarettes and i even think i will try to stop completely even without them.


The key weapon I used to quit was this: I reflected on the craving I felt and thought, "If I give in to this craving now, I am going to continue to experience cravings for the rest of my life. If I just don't act on it, it will get better." The physical cravings are at their strongest for only three days. After that it gets much easier. After about 2 weeks you are really in the clear as long as you don't hang around people or situations you always used to smoke in. And really, once you get your sense of smell and taste back and realize how deadened you were to your senses from cigarettes it becomes *really* easy to keep going.

Good luck! I am *so* glad I broke free of that. It's a fight worth fighting.


Reflecting on it, after about 15 years of heavy smoking, the thing that worked for me was just persistence, I got so sick of failing at quitting that eventually it worked. I think I formally tried to quit something like 12 or 13 times, with every quitting apparatus out there. The thing that keeps me from starting up again is remembering the misery of breaking an addiction. Sometimes I have nightmares that I smoke and am addicted again.

I used the nicotine inhaler (this is prior to electronic cigarettes being a thing), and it "worked" as a straight replacement, but I got like three times more addicted to nicotine and in the end it ended up with a few days of binge smoking. I'm sure different methods work for different folks, but I also think that persistence, and habit/environment modification as you mentioned is really the main thing. Personally it was hard for me for about three months, then after that the psychological grip lessened.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Karma Dorje wrote:

Why should we privilege 21st century narratives over any other? Demons and menstrual blood speak to me in ways that ethnobotany never will.


It is a very sexist myth which perpetuates the theme of the uncleanliness of the menstrual discharge of women. Having studied many myths of plants, I cannot remember a single one where male demonic seed is cast as responsible for the growth of a plant considered pernicious.

Also, tobacco is the religious plant par excellence of Native Americans, occupying a place similar to juniper in Tibetan culture for rites of cleansing [bsangs] and the removal of pollution.


If you are going to persist in taking my jibes seriously, I am afraid I must reluctantly reply in kind. In a tradition where seed and menstrual blood have such overt symbolism, why does this necessarily imply anything about its cleanliness? I am well aware of the position tobacco occupies in native mythology. However, I don't accept a relativist argument here. The plant is either pernicious when smoked or it is not. That may very well be for each of us to decide but as an ex-smoker, it's pretty clear to me the destructive capacity of the plant. At least opium can be used as a pain-killer. There are no such benefits to tobacco.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:45 pm 
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recently i have read some article about history of using marihuana and it seem that it was first used in china.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:48 pm 
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I always thought that that Terma referred to opium...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:06 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
hi, i currently suffer from cigarette addiction, i just bought herbal ayurvedic cigarettes to help me quit smoking.

my question is that does even the ayurvedic cigarettes render phowa ineffective or close the crown chakra.

i read from chatral rinpoche's - compassionate action that indeed smoking cigarettes closes the crown chakra.

any information would be appreciated.


I'm certainly no expert, but common sense tells me that it's still not fresh air. I've been battling cigarettes for years. Over the years I've tried patches, nicotine chewing gum, prescription medicines from my doctor, smoking a pipe & Swedish snus. Swedish snus for me has been the best. I'm almost 50 years old & started smoking at 8. Apart from my lungs I'm in relatively good condition. I do 100 push ups & 100 sit ups as well as jog 1.5. Km/day most days, let's say 5 times/week. In the last 2 years I've probably spent as much time on them as off them. I'm currently trying to wean myself off the snus & am only using one piece of No 8 strength every 5 hours & am hoping to stop using that in a few weeks. Good-luck with getting off the smokes, the most important thing is to keep trying.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:24 pm 
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shaunc wrote:
Good-luck with getting off the smokes, the most important thing is to keep trying.


Image

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:42 am 
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I dont know if smoking closes the crown chakra or not but if you are determined to quit you can do it. I still smoke organic roll your own, a few a day. I would suggest switching to that first, then cut down slowly, then quit. At least with the organic there isnt all of the chemicals. I am a Doctor of Oriental medicine and my old Chinese prof told me that its not good to quit any addiction cold turkey..causes too much of a shock to the system. Better to cut down slowly, then quit. I remember switching to the organic many years ago..went through a mini withdrawal due to the chemicals. Whatever you do, dont listen to people who have never smoked before..they will never have a clue what its really like. Lastly, as a side note, my teacher never told us to quit, but that every time we do smoke we should do Guruyoga...good luck bro

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:04 am 
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Malcolm wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, the idea that tobacco springs from the menstrual blood of an evil demoness is a little silly since tobacco never existed in the old world until it was brought back from the new world by Europeans.

That being said, tobacco is pernicious if only for the fact that it takes up polonium 210 from the soil, rendering its smoke toxically radioactive, which is why for example, tobacco causes cancer but weed does not.


Is it possible to read the text with the understanding that tobacco sprang from the menstrual blood of an evil demoness... without reference to geography or ethnobotany? That is, did the terton really need to specify that tobacco is a North American noxious weed for his text to have value?



In 19th century Tibet, no. In 21st century America, yes. Moreover, tobacco, like any plant, has medicinal as well as other uses. To characterize it as a weed is wrong. A plant is only a weed when it is not wanted or not understood.


Over the past decade, there has been increased research into the uses of either nicotine or nicotine-based compounds for treatment of, among other things, schizophrenia, wound treatment in diabetics, and ulcerative colitis. It seems that nicotine reduces the "positive" symptoms of schizophrenia (such as hallucinations and delusions), and also strongly promotes blood vessel growth (which is why cancers in smokers tend to be more aggressive) and also helps with gut motility.

I guess there are two sides to every coin. Of course, inhaling particulate matter deeply into your lungs is always a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:15 am 
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where do you get your information that it promotes blood vessel growth. my understanding is quite opposite since smoking contracts blood vessels and all vessels and dries up the body.

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If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:40 am 
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There is solid evidence of the beneficial effects of smoking in those with schizophrenia..there is also a known effect on gut motility.
In the case of those with schizophrenia the long term health effects could be seen as being offset by the benefits ( a partial or complete cessation of symptoms for some time after each cigarette ).
But those without schizophrenia have no such justification.
And there are ways of helping gut motility without the risks associated with smoking.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
There is solid evidence of the beneficial effects of smoking in those with schizophrenia..there is also a known effect on gut motility.
In the case of those with schizophrenia the long term health effects could be seen as being offset by the benefits ( a partial or complete cessation of symptoms for some time after each cigarette ).
But those without schizophrenia have no such justification.
And there are ways of helping gut motility without the risks associated with smoking.


I've read of similar applications of tobacco for people who are suffering with Parkinson's, and I've met such people who self-medicate in this way and feel they get some benefit from it, but I don't know if there's any scholarship on this.

A friend of mine has been researching the dopamine cycle in humans, which has to do with experiences of pleasure and euphoria (and hence behaviors such as thrill-seeking, risk-taking, sex-having, and drug-using). His comments were interesting to me: one cigarette gives about ten times the dopamine response as does one orgasm. So, brain-chemically, one could masturbate to orgasm ten times successively in a short interval of time (?!), or smoke a cigarette, to get the same kind of lift. Which is more efficient? The answer: a dose of methamphetamine, impacts the dopamine thing more intensively than smoking or sexing by degrees of magnitude. Again, I've not studied the science on this, but it seems credible and plausible enough for consideration here.

:cheers:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:25 pm 
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I think its pretty well established Jikan that nicotine brings about a temporary cessation or lessening of intensity in hallucinatory processes in some schizophrenic subjects but I don't have the data to hand.
I am not up to date with the research but the last time I looked the actual biochemistry was not yet well described.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:54 pm 
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i think orgasm is much better that cigarette but orgasm stimulates you and cigarettes relaxes you so its different.

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If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:58 pm 
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but back to the topic. i received an answer from malcolm that smoking herbal ayurvedic cigarettes shouldnt be a problem for phowa.

but i am interested that where else is it mentioned and with what certainty that smoking closes the crown chakra.

does anyone have any references or information about this ?

for me only work where i have come accros with this is Chatral Rinpoche's book called compassionate action.

i would like more references and more people who hold this view or opinion and i would be also interested in theories or proof WHY it CLOSES the crown chakra.

thanks :namaste:

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:23 pm 
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I can share that Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche told me directly that smoking affects clarity.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
...nicotine brings about a temporary cessation or lessening of intensity in hallucinatory processes in some schizophrenic subjects...


Pure speculation here, but this may also affect the ability to have visions, which might lead one to believe that the crown chakra is blocked.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:11 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
where do you get your information that it promotes blood vessel growth. my understanding is quite opposite since smoking contracts blood vessels and all vessels and dries up the body.


https://www.google.com/search?client=ub ... 8&oe=utf-8

Remember, smoking is not the only means of administering nicotine.

See also these:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/746713
http://www.georgetown.edu/news/slowing- ... otine.html


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:49 pm 
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Useful links Aparajita... :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Simon E, "And there are ways of helping gut motility without the risks associated with smoking."
Out of interest what are they? In addition I remember reading somewhere, people that smoke do not suffer from dementia or at least the risk of dementia is less.


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