Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
Dharmaswede wrote:"Everyone who wanted to follow him had to renounce everything – home, possessions, family and friends – and follow his guidance with no objections and no guarantees."
Alfredo wrote:The basic idea behind what he is doing--raising Tibetan Buddhist concepts from out of their Tibetan cultural background. . . . I wonder if this sort of thing is the wave of the future.
michaelb wrote:That's not entirely true. Some lamas, Pema Lingpa and Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok spring to mind, made terma discoveries in public.dzoki wrote:Real tertons usually keep their discoveries secret for many years and do not broadcast them as soon as something popped up in their mind.
Alfredo wrote:But some of his practices can be practiced now, without going to Mexico. Besides, where exactly do you think "here" is?
Lama Ivo has already told his side of the story in some detail on his website, so before asking him to comment, it might be better to read that first. I was actually hoping to learn what other people say about him, in the hopes that that would prove revealing.
So far my impression (from reading his website) has been mixed. On one hand, he seems serious, intense, and knowledgable. I can hardly fault him for being a Westerner, or an iconoclast. On the other, he has obviously groomed his followers to obey him with some intensity, even when he guides them in unexpected directions. This model of guru-dom is one which I wish could be reformed out of Vajrayana, not simply universalized to make it less Tibetan. But then, I am an unenlightened wretch, so what do I know?
It is also interesting how Tibetan Buddhists (of whatever ethnicity) instinctively react to Lama Ivo, but not Chogyam Trungpa, with suspicion, and are willing to criticize the one and praise the other, even when they have no personal connection with either. I wonder what accounts for these differing presumptions.
Alfredo wrote:Then maybe that's another thing that needs to be reformed.
dzoki wrote:These days there are people who are deceived by Mara into believing that they are discovering some teachings. People such as Seonaidh Perks, "Ngagpa" Chogyam and others (I am sure there are many more). Outwardly they may not appear mad and their conduct seems to be humble and down to earth, however inwardly they are mad, because they believe whatever visions they have to be true and they take them for a face value. Real tertons usually keep their discoveries secret for many years and do not broadcast them as soon as something popped up in their mind. Visions are just illusions, whether they are genuine pure visions or not. These days we have so many termas that there is a question whether it is really worth to reveal any new ones. So maybe it would be good for any new terton to first consider whether he clings to those visions or not and whether it is worth writing down anything that he might think of.
Yet if they come from a Tibetan settlement, wear a shantab and zen, speak in Pidgin English and call themselves "Tulku" then no matter how atrocious their behaviour they will be universally heralded as the second coming of Drukpa Kunleg by the same people that dismiss Western teachers as madmen. Such is our self-hatred and lack of appreciation of our culture.
smcj wrote:Yet if they come from a Tibetan settlement, wear a shantab and zen, speak in Pidgin English and call themselves "Tulku" then no matter how atrocious their behaviour they will be universally heralded as the second coming of Drukpa Kunleg by the same people that dismiss Western teachers as madmen. Such is our self-hatred and lack of appreciation of our culture.
Um, sounds like you've experienced something you resented. If so, sorry to hear it.
No, just the superficiality of judging qualifications based on ethnic origin. I was quite lucky to have a Western root guru. They rarely get the respect they deserve based on their study and accomplishment.
Alfredo wrote:The notion that it is enough to focus on our own teachers, and ignore the wider ethical problems plaguing Tibetan Buddhism (or Buddhism in general), to me shows a lack of spiritual responsibility.
Termas need ratification by recognised and qualified masters, or they need to be discovered by the masters themselves. Why didn't Ivo Kalushev show his terma to ChNN when he had the chance? You think he didn't show them to ChNN, in order to protect ChNN? You think that if the content of the termas was legit that it would matter if they were not specifically Tibetan Vajrayana? That ChNN would not have been able to recoginse their validity? I imagine he didn't show them to ChNN probably coz they are "fake" and would have been proven "fake" by a qualified and realised teacher and then he would have been exposed for what he is: a fraud capitalising on the ignorance of the gulible.Anders wrote:I am in two minds with such things.
On the one hand, we should expect such things to happen authentically in the west, and probably in ways that are more different from Tibetan Buddhism than how Tibetan Buddhism has differed from Indian Buddhism. That is after all the whole point of termas - continuous revelations of methods especially suited to new circumstances and dispositions. So my instinctive response is 'this sounds like it could be a very good thing'.
On the other hand, this is also the preferred route for con artists and the self-deluded. And they seem to outnumber the real deal in such cases in even higher proportion in this area than elsewhere on the spiritual circuit. So a certain measure of scepticism seems a requirement in all cases.
Users browsing this forum: Sherab Rigdrol and 15 guests