why do people dislike these two things?

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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:56 pm

:woohoo:
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:55 pm

Simon E. wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Personally, I've always been very inspired by the pratyekabuddha ideal.

But this does not extend to internet activity ?

I think pratyekabuddhas would like the internet. :smile:
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:48 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:for me i am a little bit drawn into a city where i could be an active part of the Dharma cetner. help me learn to be with people. but on the other hand i dont need the confusion that comes with it and i find it much more fruitful to practice at home and just go for empowerments and teachings when i have the chance and some retreats. i dont know if the group energy with the practices would be beneficial or not but i think it could potentially be a disturbance. and drive me out of my center. and i tend to feel very strongly peoples vibes and i am not sending the best vibes out either so i get in this mucky energy and that is not good and i have also started to like this yogi idea more than socializing bodhisattva type.



That just sounds like rationalization to have a "safe" practice, instead of one that challenges you. I mean no offense, I get where you guys are coming from with the desire for solitary practice itself, and I definitely get annoyance with difficult people. I consider my home practice to be my "main" one. Just seems like it's really easy (and not necessarily the best thing) in this day and age to opt out of most in person Dharma interaction and call it "being a yogi". Honestly in group practice, if you are getting "bad energy" from people, that should be part of the practice, and I think avoiding it on those grounds is a cop-out. Sorry to be blunt, I just think the above reasoning is questionable. Not saying no one should practice in solitude, as obvious many do and there's a rich history there.

The other thing about actually attending a physical location is that (depending on circumstances, i'm lucky in this regard as teachers are always there) you get to see your teacher more often, which is my main reason for going, every time I go I get some tidbit, or am able to ask some clarifying question and get a response that in many cases just wouldn't translate over email etc. Personally when it comes to this kind of interaction, I would choose in person every single time, though I do acknowledge that doing so also means putting up with other people I may not get along with, and all that jive.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:19 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:That just sounds like rationalization to have a "safe" practice, instead of one that challenges you...

Nope. My partner is a practitioner and I have plenty of "Dharma interaction" with her and with my teacher. Ordinary life is already more than sufficiently challenging for me.
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:24 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:That just sounds like rationalization to have a "safe" practice, instead of one that challenges you...

Nope. My partner is a practitioner and I have plenty of "Dharma interaction" with her and with my teacher. Ordinary life is already more than sufficiently challenging for me.



I wasn't talking about you, but about the quoted statements on group practice specfically.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:25 pm

Oh, I thought you said "you guys", plural. You're off the hook.
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:26 pm

for me its not that easy to just go or not. i have to make a big effort in moving to another city to be able to go to Dharma centers on a weekly basis. i know there is a plus side to it but there is a downside moving to a big city from a small town. i have only good experiences from group practices from other places than finland and last finlands weekend on dharma center was very good.

anyway, this thread is very intersting to hear peoples experience from Dharma centers, and that there actually is some kind of shitty in lack of a better word situations there.

but if i had a dharma center in town i would be a regular customer no doubt about it.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:38 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Oh, I thought you said "you guys", plural. You're off the hook.


I think you're a grumpy misanthrope, but for some reason I get the definite vibe it works for you;)
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Oh, I thought you said "you guys", plural. You're off the hook.

I think you're a grumpy misanthrope, but for some reason I get the definite vibe it works for you;)

Definitely, except for the part about it working for me. :smile:
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:16 am

There's an interesting section about Dharma centers in this book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/130721053/Thinley-Norbu-Gypsy-Gossip
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:29 am

dzogchungpa wrote:There's an interesting section about Dharma centers in this book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/130721053/Thinley-Norbu-Gypsy-Gossip



Hmm, all I got was the small sample, got a quote or something?
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:41 am

Well, Thinley Norbu tends to be a bit unsummarizable, but here are a few quotes:
Rigdzin Jigme Lingpa said, "If you really aren't weary of samsara, monasteries and centers become just like a big house; if you really want to have pure practice, then you'd better not go from a small house to a big house".

Nevertheless, I don't mean to criticize monasteries or centers. If we can keep our inner practice and pure motivation within the center's traditional environment, then they can be the basis of sangha and an opportunity to benefit all sentient beings. Moreover, in such places we may encounter sublime individuals and by associating with them and assimilating their spiritual qualities even ordinary persons can be led towards enlightenment.

Dharma cannot be "done" through material things. Natural mind which is the support of the Dharma is beyond substance. Because there is no substance to grasp, it is not easy to recognize and it is not easy to teach or to learn; consequently wisdom teaching cannot be seen or found easily.
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby Nemo » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:19 am

One does not join a center for what you get out of it. The motivation is tainted and the outcome will be weak. You join as an act of service.

I am a misanthrope but I found the crazy people rather entertaining. The dilettantes with inflated egos thinking they were more enlightened than everyone else were overwhelmingly annoying on occasion. Especially when they expected you to literally serve them like Dharma royalty. Some were more demanding than high Tulku's. My teacher loved when they would teach me patience. Even making me drive them around and attend to them. Training with 1RCR was nowhere near as psychologically taxing.
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Re: why do people dislike these two things?

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:24 am

Nemo wrote:You join as an act of service.

Is that, like, a rule, or what?
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Posts: 1475
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