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 Post subject: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:51 am 
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An introduction to the Surangama Sutra translated by Charles Luk notes that his first Dharma Master was the Hutuktu of Sikong. How was this master and does the lineage still exist?

This could have been quite early in the 20th century as Charles Luk was born in Canton in 1898. Hutuktu is a Mongolian term for tulku. Where is/was Sikong? Mongolia, China, Tibet, Southeast Asia, Nepal, Sikkim or from elsewhere in the general Tibetan Buddhist Himalayan cultural sphere?

Thanks!

Kirt

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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:38 am 
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Hi Kirt,

Just saw that nobody has come up with an answer, and decided to google it. There is a Sikong mountain but it seems to be more associated with Chan?

http://www.absolutechinatours.com/Anqing-attractions/Sikong-Mountain-4921.html


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:15 am 
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mudra wrote:
Hi Kirt,

Just saw that nobody has come up with an answer, and decided to google it. There is a Sikong mountain but it seems to be more associated with Chan?

http://www.absolutechinatours.com/Anqing-attractions/Sikong-Mountain-4921.html


Hi Mudra -

I saw that too (I looked it up after posting my msg a while ago). It would seem that there's an unwritten history here as the hutuktu would have to be associated with esoteric Buddhism and with that title probably a Mongolian lineage.

Where is Sikong mountain located?

Kirt

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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:47 pm 
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Hi Kirt,

Judging by the location of Anhui province where Sikong mountain is saiod to besituated, it doesn't make sense:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/i/map/CHN/china-anhui-province-map.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/map/china-china-anhui-province-map-chn-chn219.htm&usg=__EsdPor5v7ZnQ8nGm8gQ59rfFtwg=&h=607&w=700&sz=189&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=VahOcSdeTBlxnM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAnhui%2Bprovince%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26tbs%3Disch:1

way too far south for Mongolians. If anything it relates more to Vietnam than Mongolia?

Stumped.


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:14 am 
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Hey Kirt,

Was just browsing the net and came upon reference to Sikong as being in steppes, and Inner Mongolia was alluded to in the same citation:

http://books.google.com/books?id=riDT0BxwpMAC&pg=RA1-PA196&lpg=RA1-PA196&dq=sikong%2Bmongolia&source=bl&ots=wjvgQfi7-Y&sig=YMi8HJm--POJGwx-1FFOvdtkOPM&hl=en&ei=CyYgTOCOMsmUrAeEoMR_&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sikong%2Bmongolia&f=false

Sikong Mountain was a red herring it seems!


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:40 pm 
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mudra wrote:
Hey Kirt,

Was just browsing the net and came upon reference to Sikong as being in steppes, and Inner Mongolia was alluded to in the same citation:

http://books.google.com/books?id=riDT0BxwpMAC&pg=RA1-PA196&lpg=RA1-PA196&dq=sikong%2Bmongolia&source=bl&ots=wjvgQfi7-Y&sig=YMi8HJm--POJGwx-1FFOvdtkOPM&hl=en&ei=CyYgTOCOMsmUrAeEoMR_&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sikong%2Bmongolia&f=false

Sikong Mountain was a red herring it seems!


Thanks Mudra! That's a good catch. I'm finding some other references to Sikong in Inner Mongolia.

Kirt

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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:13 am 
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kirtu wrote:
mudra wrote:
Hey Kirt,

Was just browsing the net and came upon reference to Sikong as being in steppes, and Inner Mongolia was alluded to in the same citation:

http://books.google.com/books?id=riDT0BxwpMAC&pg=RA1-PA196&lpg=RA1-PA196&dq=sikong%2Bmongolia&source=bl&ots=wjvgQfi7-Y&sig=YMi8HJm--POJGwx-1FFOvdtkOPM&hl=en&ei=CyYgTOCOMsmUrAeEoMR_&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sikong%2Bmongolia&f=false

Sikong Mountain was a red herring it seems!


Thanks Mudra! That's a good catch. I'm finding some other references to Sikong in Inner Mongolia.

Kirt



Sikong is possibly just Xinjiang in another dialect. This is the Uigyur area in far western PRoC.

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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:59 am 
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Charles Luk's Chinese name is 陸寬昱. Hutuktu of Sikong is referring to 西康之呼圖克圖.

Sikong(西康), was actually an old district/province name in China. According to http://baike.baidu.com/view/296195.htm that is located near the western part of current SiChuan/Szechwan (四川) and eastern Tibet.


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:02 am 
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some1 wrote:
Charles Luk's Chinese name is 陸寬昱. Hutuktu of Sikong is referring to 西康之呼圖克圖.

Sikong(西康), was actually an old district/province name in China. According to http://baike.baidu.com/view/296195.htm that is located near the western part of current SiChuan/Szechwan (四川) and eastern Tibet.


Hi Some1,

What would be the transliteration of the Chinese characters for Hutuktu of Sikong above?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:12 am 
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Hi Mudra,
As I mentioned previously, it is impossible to transliterate Chinese accurately in using roman characters. Anyway, 西康之呼圖克圖 in pinyin is xī kāng zhī hū tú kè tú.

呼圖克圖 is in fact the Chinese transcription for Hutuktu (as mentioned in the OP, Hutuktu is a Mongolian term for tulku). This term was actually used as the official title for leaders of Mongolian and Tibetan Lamas during the Qing Dynasty .

http://www.zdic.net/cd/ci/8/ZdicE5Zdic9 ... 113241.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Hutuktu of Sikong?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:41 am 
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kirtu wrote:
An introduction to the Surangama Sutra translated by Charles Luk notes that his first Dharma Master was the Hutuktu of Sikong. How was this master and does the lineage still exist?

This could have been quite early in the 20th century as Charles Luk was born in Canton in 1898. Hutuktu is a Mongolian term for tulku. Where is/was Sikong? Mongolia, China, Tibet, Southeast Asia, Nepal, Sikkim or from elsewhere in the general Tibetan Buddhist Himalayan cultural sphere?

Thanks!

Kirt

I could not find any details about Charles Luk's first Dharma Master on the Internet other than being "the Hutuktu of Sikong". I think possibly that was either 諾那呼圖克圖 (Nora Gaya Lama Khutughtu) or 贡噶呼图克图 (9th Gangkar Hutuktu)

http://www.nuona.com/nuona/Article_Show ... icleID=187
http://www.nona.org.tw/funder/funder_r225.htm
http://www.gangkar.org/cht/lineage/gangkar.asp


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