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Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:41 am
by Kunzang8
Hi

In the Four Mandala Offerings to Tara Sadhana, there is a section on offering Torma. If one does not have a torma offering, what does one do??

If I get one of those wooden torma representations, does it mean I don't need and actual torma? Where can I get on by the way. Thanks.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:59 am
by heart
Kunzang8 wrote:Hi

In the Four Mandala Offerings to Tara Sadhana, there is a section on offering Torma. If one does not have a torma offering, what does one do??

If I get one of those wooden torma representations, does it mean I don't need and actual torma? Where can I get on by the way. Thanks.
You can offer a serkyem with tea and some biscuits on the side, or just a biscuit. I use digestives.

There are many kinds of torma. Some represent the deity, or the protectors and some represents offerings of various kinds. So you have to get the right torma. Getting the deity tormas can be quite difficult. The others you can learn how to make.

If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:59 pm
by JKhedrup
My teachers have also indicated to me that the torma offering can be visualized, or also left out if one is pressed for time.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:22 pm
by Silent Bob
Here is an appropriate torma for Four Mandalas practice:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore ... Wood+%23+8
and another:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore ... altze+%237
which goes here:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore ... ER+Sm+%231

I was taught to refresh the torma every day with white-colored cookies on a separate little plate which is placed beside the offering torma, but I've found it simpler to use Cheerios, one by one.

Here is a nice GT deity torma (phuktor) for your shrine:
https://www.zambala.com/product_info.ph ... 5a8039f1cd
There is a procedure for blessing new phuktors or statues with rolled-up mantras (and other things) placed inside, but a description of that will have to wait for another time.

Chris

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:03 pm
by Grigoris
I make a shal say torma, when I have the time, or use white biscuits and tea when feeling lazy.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:35 am
by Kunzang8
JKhedrup wrote:My teachers have also indicated to me that the torma offering can be visualized, or also left out if one is pressed for time.
1) I thought you can replace offerings by visualization only if it is something like HYT, not sure what category this practice is.

2) When you say leave out, do you mean leave out the actual torma offerings or reciting the torma part altogether?

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:53 am
by JKhedrup
Chittamani Tara is a Highest Yoga Tantra practice.
When you say leave out, do you mean leave out the actual torma offerings or reciting the torma part altogether?
I have been taught when really pressed for time they can be left out (the abbreviated Guru Yoga practice of Chittamani Tara doesn't include torma offerings anyways), though of course it is best to do them.

HHDL has mentioned the torma offering is important though not nearly as important as the practice of Taking the Three Bodies (death, intermediate state and rebirth) into the path.

I have not heard that including or leaving our torma offerings has anything to do with which class of tantra the practice is, though of course simply because I haven't heard that doesn't mean it is incorrect! (I am learning new things all the time).

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:22 am
by heart
The only "Four Mandala Offerings to Tara" that I know of is from the Chokling Tersar and is considered a kriya yoga practice, however since it is a terma it isn't as simple as that. Are there a "Four Mandala Offerings to Tara" in the Chittamani Tara practice?

/magnus

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:53 pm
by JKhedrup
There are several different Chittamani Tara practice texts, including a short guru yoga, a longer sadhana, the four mandala offerings, and various retreat rituals and completion stage practices.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:32 pm
by ngodrup
There is a Green Tara within the Dudjom Tersar that is mahayoga, i.e. HYT.
This particular practice has its own associated tsog.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:21 pm
by Kunzang8
heart wrote: If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus
Is the Ritual Sadhana Course Tara practice the Four mandala offering Tara Practice? I thought it was a different one.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:10 pm
by heart
Kunzang8 wrote:
heart wrote: If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus
Is the Ritual Sadhana Course Tara practice the Four mandala offering Tara Practice? I thought it was a different one.
There are two courses this year as I understand it, one on Trinley Nyingpo and one on the outer sadhana in the Zabtig Drolma cycle called "The Essence of the Two Accumulations, The Mandala Ritual from the Mind Treasure, The Profound Essence of Tara". If it is this practice you are doing then this is the correct course.

/magnus

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:45 pm
by philji
When one offers a simple Torma such as tea and a biscuit, should you leave it on the shrine and keep adding to it? If so when to dispose of them???? I try to do Green Tara once a week... :shrug:

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:57 pm
by conebeckham
For the Four Mandala Offering of Zabtik Drolma, which is the most popular such ritual amongst Kagyupas and Nyingmapas I think, one offers a Kartor (or "White Torma") during the torma offering. The Shelzay torma is a separate torma offering of "Food" as one of the 8 outer offerings.

It's customary to offer a new Kartor each day, or each session, and to take the offered Kartor out before one starts a new session. This is the general rule, for any daily deity practice where one offers a torma of some sort.

HOWEVER, in the context of drupchos or drupchens, there are occasions where the torma offerings are left on the shrine, and new ones are added with each session. These can be special sorts of tormas, that end up being a big pile by the end.....

Additionally, some "Nyendrup" practices--intensive accumulation retreats--require that one have a main "Phuktor" or "Tentor" and that one add a small "tebkyu" or dough triangle" to the plate of the Phuktor or Tentor for every session.

There are many different methods and ways of offering, we can say.

In daily practice, I offer biscuits or crackers, and I take them out after the session, or prior to the next session. This was specifically explained to me by my gurus as being appropriate, if one didn't have time for making Kartors, Martors, etc.

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:21 pm
by heart
philji wrote:When one offers a simple Torma such as tea and a biscuit, should you leave it on the shrine and keep adding to it? If so when to dispose of them???? I try to do Green Tara once a week... :shrug:
After the session, take it outside and leave it in a "clean" place (where people don't walk or animals shit) preferable a high place. All the birds in the neighborhood will become your best friends.

/magnus

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:26 pm
by philji
Thanks Cone and Magnus, that is what I thought .

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:23 pm
by Konchog1
What do you do if animals don't eat the torma after you put it out?

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:38 pm
by conebeckham
It will eventually disintegrate. Right?

Tormas are organic! :smile:

Here's a pic of a tentor for Zabtik Drolma, done according to PalpungLuk....(Palpung Tradition)...

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:30 am
by rai
hi,

generally, is any Tara empowerment sufficient to practice Four Mandala Offerings to Tara (from Chokling Tersar) or it has to be some specific empowerment?

Thanks!

Re: Four Mandala Offerings to Tara

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:48 am
by Grigoris
rai wrote:hi,

generally, is any Tara empowerment sufficient to practice Four Mandala Offerings to Tara (from Chokling Tersar) or it has to be some specific empowerment?

Thanks!
Realistically: any empowerment is sufficient empowerment to practice any deity, as all deities have the same nature.

I think you will find though that the only thing that is required to do a practice, is the lung for the practice.