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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:41 am 
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Hi

In the Four Mandala Offerings to Tara Sadhana, there is a section on offering Torma. If one does not have a torma offering, what does one do??

If I get one of those wooden torma representations, does it mean I don't need and actual torma? Where can I get on by the way. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:59 am 
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Kunzang8 wrote:
Hi

In the Four Mandala Offerings to Tara Sadhana, there is a section on offering Torma. If one does not have a torma offering, what does one do??

If I get one of those wooden torma representations, does it mean I don't need and actual torma? Where can I get on by the way. Thanks.


You can offer a serkyem with tea and some biscuits on the side, or just a biscuit. I use digestives.

There are many kinds of torma. Some represent the deity, or the protectors and some represents offerings of various kinds. So you have to get the right torma. Getting the deity tormas can be quite difficult. The others you can learn how to make.

If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:59 pm 
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My teachers have also indicated to me that the torma offering can be visualized, or also left out if one is pressed for time.

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Here is an appropriate torma for Four Mandalas practice:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1374015639&PNAME=Peaceful+White+Torma+in+Wood+%23+8
and another:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1047850448&PNAME=PEACEFUL+WHITE+TORMA_Shewa+Shaltze+%237
which goes here:
http://www.potalagate.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1055094210&PNAME=TORMA+PLATE++COPPER+Sm+%231

I was taught to refresh the torma every day with white-colored cookies on a separate little plate which is placed beside the offering torma, but I've found it simpler to use Cheerios, one by one.

Here is a nice GT deity torma (phuktor) for your shrine:
https://www.zambala.com/product_info.php?cPath=285_355&products_id=317&osCsid=c384936f8ffcaffe6f9c925a8039f1cd
There is a procedure for blessing new phuktors or statues with rolled-up mantras (and other things) placed inside, but a description of that will have to wait for another time.

Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:03 pm 
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I make a shal say torma, when I have the time, or use white biscuits and tea when feeling lazy.

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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:35 am 
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JKhedrup wrote:
My teachers have also indicated to me that the torma offering can be visualized, or also left out if one is pressed for time.


1) I thought you can replace offerings by visualization only if it is something like HYT, not sure what category this practice is.

2) When you say leave out, do you mean leave out the actual torma offerings or reciting the torma part altogether?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:53 am 
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Chittamani Tara is a Highest Yoga Tantra practice.

Quote:
When you say leave out, do you mean leave out the actual torma offerings or reciting the torma part altogether?


I have been taught when really pressed for time they can be left out (the abbreviated Guru Yoga practice of Chittamani Tara doesn't include torma offerings anyways), though of course it is best to do them.

HHDL has mentioned the torma offering is important though not nearly as important as the practice of Taking the Three Bodies (death, intermediate state and rebirth) into the path.

I have not heard that including or leaving our torma offerings has anything to do with which class of tantra the practice is, though of course simply because I haven't heard that doesn't mean it is incorrect! (I am learning new things all the time).

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:22 am 
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The only "Four Mandala Offerings to Tara" that I know of is from the Chokling Tersar and is considered a kriya yoga practice, however since it is a terma it isn't as simple as that. Are there a "Four Mandala Offerings to Tara" in the Chittamani Tara practice?

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:53 pm 
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There are several different Chittamani Tara practice texts, including a short guru yoga, a longer sadhana, the four mandala offerings, and various retreat rituals and completion stage practices.

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:32 pm 
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There is a Green Tara within the Dudjom Tersar that is mahayoga, i.e. HYT.
This particular practice has its own associated tsog.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:21 pm 
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heart wrote:
If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus


Is the Ritual Sadhana Course Tara practice the Four mandala offering Tara Practice? I thought it was a different one.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Kunzang8 wrote:
heart wrote:
If you have the possibility to participate in this; http://www.phakchokrinpoche.org/schedul ... al-courses
It will resolve all your problems.

/magnus


Is the Ritual Sadhana Course Tara practice the Four mandala offering Tara Practice? I thought it was a different one.


There are two courses this year as I understand it, one on Trinley Nyingpo and one on the outer sadhana in the Zabtig Drolma cycle called "The Essence of the Two Accumulations, The Mandala Ritual from the Mind Treasure, The Profound Essence of Tara". If it is this practice you are doing then this is the correct course.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:45 pm 
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When one offers a simple Torma such as tea and a biscuit, should you leave it on the shrine and keep adding to it? If so when to dispose of them???? I try to do Green Tara once a week... :shrug:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:57 pm 
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For the Four Mandala Offering of Zabtik Drolma, which is the most popular such ritual amongst Kagyupas and Nyingmapas I think, one offers a Kartor (or "White Torma") during the torma offering. The Shelzay torma is a separate torma offering of "Food" as one of the 8 outer offerings.

It's customary to offer a new Kartor each day, or each session, and to take the offered Kartor out before one starts a new session. This is the general rule, for any daily deity practice where one offers a torma of some sort.

HOWEVER, in the context of drupchos or drupchens, there are occasions where the torma offerings are left on the shrine, and new ones are added with each session. These can be special sorts of tormas, that end up being a big pile by the end.....

Additionally, some "Nyendrup" practices--intensive accumulation retreats--require that one have a main "Phuktor" or "Tentor" and that one add a small "tebkyu" or dough triangle" to the plate of the Phuktor or Tentor for every session.

There are many different methods and ways of offering, we can say.

In daily practice, I offer biscuits or crackers, and I take them out after the session, or prior to the next session. This was specifically explained to me by my gurus as being appropriate, if one didn't have time for making Kartors, Martors, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:21 pm 
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philji wrote:
When one offers a simple Torma such as tea and a biscuit, should you leave it on the shrine and keep adding to it? If so when to dispose of them???? I try to do Green Tara once a week... :shrug:


After the session, take it outside and leave it in a "clean" place (where people don't walk or animals shit) preferable a high place. All the birds in the neighborhood will become your best friends.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Thanks Cone and Magnus, that is what I thought .


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:23 pm 
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What do you do if animals don't eat the torma after you put it out?

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:38 pm 
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It will eventually disintegrate. Right?

Tormas are organic! :smile:

Here's a pic of a tentor for Zabtik Drolma, done according to PalpungLuk....(Palpung Tradition)...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:30 am 
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hi,

generally, is any Tara empowerment sufficient to practice Four Mandala Offerings to Tara (from Chokling Tersar) or it has to be some specific empowerment?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:48 am 
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rai wrote:
hi,

generally, is any Tara empowerment sufficient to practice Four Mandala Offerings to Tara (from Chokling Tersar) or it has to be some specific empowerment?

Thanks!
Realistically: any empowerment is sufficient empowerment to practice any deity, as all deities have the same nature.

I think you will find though that the only thing that is required to do a practice, is the lung for the practice.

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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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