Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

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Motova
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Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby Motova » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:28 am

Hello,

I was wondering if it is generally assumed that people in Vajrayana are king-like bodhisattvas? Are boatman-like and shepherd-like paths seen as kind of irrelevant in Vajrayana?

I was also hoping if someone could shed some light on the different benefits to sentient beings in regards to one being a king-like, boatman-like, and shepherd-like bodhisattva? Because if one is clearly more beneficial to sentient beings then I think that would render the rest as irrelevant.

I am trying not to get hung up on these things, as I am so low on the totem pole (no vows or guru). So basically I am trying to work on perfecting the six perfections with gusto, but it's something I have been thinking about lately.

Thank you.

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Konchog1
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:45 am

I read somewhere that shepherd-like is the most admirable, but king-like is the only practical option.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:56 am

The king, boatman, and shepherd analogies are not characterizations of different types of bodhisattvas, but of different levels of bodhicitta motivation that a bodhisattva may have.

The king-like motivation, where one goes towards enlightenment so that one can then lead others on the Path, is the smallest motivation. The boatman analogy, where he takes all sentient beings with him, is the next greater motivation. The motivation of the shepherd, where the intent is to usher all sentient beings to enlightenment before himself, is considered the greatest.

But my understanding is that these are sequential, everyone starts out with the king-like motivation. The others are a description of the levels of freedom of love the bodhisattva experiences as his innate Buddha Nature finds expression with the removal of his obscurations. You should NOT think of it as a menu, decide to not work for your own enlightenment, and think that doing so is accomplishing the shepherd like motivation. Some lamas won't even teach this publicly because people get it all wrong.

IMHO
:soapbox:
Don't take me too seriously.

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monktastic
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby monktastic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:06 pm

How is this supposed to work for the shepherd-like bodhisattva? Is it considered optimal to attain some particular bhumi and then "wait"/help? Surely he does not sit and eat Cheetos in his mother's basement until the time is ripe :smile:
This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

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Grigoris
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby Grigoris » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:13 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

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kirtu
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby kirtu » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:03 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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maybay
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby maybay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:34 am

People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:30 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

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maybay
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby maybay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:06 pm

People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

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tomamundsen
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby tomamundsen » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:59 pm


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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:30 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

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maybay
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby maybay » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:39 pm

People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

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Konchog1
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:57 pm

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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kirtu
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby kirtu » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:38 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

brendan
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby brendan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:17 am

We can still cultivate the aspiration while practicing Vajrayana assiduously.

Kirt[/quote]

The problem being that no one has achieved Vajrayana Buddhahood let along the higher stages or Bhumis of the Bodhisattva path. How could they, there are still suffering sentient beings!

Yet Vajrayana and Mahayana followers are led to believe they must follow in the footsteps of these supreme beings. It really is a bit comical dont you think?

From a Hinayana (to obtain enlightenment for oneself) perspective cessation of suffering seems possible. But from a Vajrayana/Mahayna (to obtain enlightenment for _all_ sentient beings), cessation of suffering clearly hasnt happened.

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maybay
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby maybay » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:22 am

I wish I could see the comedy in not understanding ground, path and result.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron

brendan
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby brendan » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:04 pm


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smcj
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Re: Types of Bodhisattvas in Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:40 pm

Don't take me too seriously.


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