Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

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lobster
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by lobster »

MalaBeads wrote: Awareness however can suffuse the body. But awareness is "not me" either. It's just awareness.
Exactly. The Buddha had a body. Before, during and after awakening. A body, just like awareness of and in the body is a temporary arising, subjective if you will.
Awareness independent of subjective association. In other words awareness due to causality is without beginning or end. That therefore is not the end of subjectivity, neither is it the beginning or the arising . . . :thinking:
MalaBeads
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by MalaBeads »

lobster wrote:
MalaBeads wrote: Awareness however can suffuse the body. But awareness is "not me" either. It's just awareness.
Exactly. The Buddha had a body. Before, during and after awakening. A body, just like awareness of and in the body is a temporary arising, subjective if you will.
Awareness independent of subjective association. In other words awareness due to causality is without beginning or end. That therefore is not the end of subjectivity, neither is it the beginning or the arising . . . :thinking:
Pretty good lobster.

Even better with butter!!

:tongue:
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Gyaltsen Tashi
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by Gyaltsen Tashi »

Does the question/s have anything to do with the three kayas? Just a hunch....
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by dzogchungpa »

Just starting to look through this, but maybe it's relevant:
‘I’ Without ‘I Am’: On The Presence Of Subjectivity In Early Buddhism, In The Light Of Transcendental Phenomenology - Khristos Nizamis:
http://tinyurl.com/p22th4h
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Gyaltsen Tashi
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by Gyaltsen Tashi »

I am not ready to give up my personal history. In fact I still bear grudges.
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wisdom
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by wisdom »

We dont really give up our personal history, we simply come to understand the nature of phenomena and so stop clinging to personal history. We stop thinking that its so important where we came from, who we have known, what we have done, what we are doing, what we will do. We lose all our conceit towards ourselves and our idea of ourselves. We maintain many of the same likes and dislikes, but we no longer cling to them as real, we understand they have the nature of illusion. In other words we become free from ourselves, no longer prisoners to our own minds and our past.

We don't really lose anything worth keeping, and we gain our freedom.
undefineable
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by undefineable »

wisdom wrote:We dont really give up our personal history, we simply come to understand the nature of phenomena and so stop clinging to personal history. We stop thinking that its so important where we came from, who we have known, what we have done, what we are doing, what we will do. We lose all our conceit towards ourselves and our idea of ourselves. We maintain many of the same likes and dislikes, but we no longer cling to them as real, we understand they have the nature of illusion. In other words we become free from ourselves, no longer prisoners to our own minds and our past.

We don't really lose anything worth keeping, and we gain our freedom.
:meditate:
you wore out your welcome with random precision {Pink Floyd}
MalaBeads
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Re: Is the attainment of Buddhahood the end of subjectivity?

Post by MalaBeads »

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I am not ready to give up my personal history. In fact I still bear grudges.
Step one is to really see and know this. And apparently do. How you choose to relate to these grudges in your life is of course up to you. From a practice point of view, clinging to past hurts will only impede your path to liberation. But everyone's own liberation is up to them. Once I took my dog to dog training class. The instructor said, "You can do this is five weeks or in five months." I think it took us five years.

My own experience about giving things up is threefold. Sometimes i give something up because it just hurts too much too keep clinging. So that is 'the hard way'. Other times, I give something up because I have sufficient insight into how it works to see that it is ridiculous to keep clinging. And still other times, it seems as if past merit allows something to release all by itself, as if the sheer momentum of practice makes something easier.

Holding grudges is common but not helpful. But your path is your own. i wish you luck.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
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