Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

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Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby purestsoul » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:14 am

Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara.

The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness.

When one is attached to the meditation on love, then the highest realms which one can ascend are the realms of form.

Because one is still attached to sensual desires.

To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

For that is how one can achieve the infinity of consciousness.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby purestsoul » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:17 am

You don't need love to forgive your enemy.

You don't need to love your enemy to forgive them.

You just merely recognize that the hate which you have in your being for your enemy will bring you back to the next round of rebirth and death if you do decide to let go of all your hate and anger.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Andrew108 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:43 am

I hope you don't really believe this.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby oushi » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:50 am

purestsoul wrote:To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

And it is done through love.
Say what you think about me here.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby muni » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:36 am

purestsoul wrote:You don't need love to forgive your enemy.

You don't need to love your enemy to forgive them.

You just merely recognize that the hate which you have in your being for your enemy will bring you back to the next round of rebirth and death if you do decide to let go of all your hate and anger.


It all start by a clinging entity-concept, clinging to itself, while it has no ground to be. This is the imagined ground on which all other delusions/imaginations are arising. Then love cannot be.

:meditate:
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Namgyal » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:43 am

purestsoul wrote:Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara.The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness.When one is attached to the meditation on love, then the highest realms which one can ascend are the realms of form.

'Theories are like patches, in time they fall off.' (Milarepa)
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby kirtu » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:32 am

purestsoul wrote:Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara.


It is correct that meditation on love alone will not free you from samsara. It will slowly purify your mind, accumulate merit and purify karma and will by itself result in rebirth in a god realm.

But it's a start.

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:56 am

purestsoul wrote: To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

Too much work, and not necessary at all.
Furthermore, you can't show any place
where emotions really exist in one's being to begin with.
So, if they aren't really there,
how can you get rid of them?

You only need to see that emotions have no true existence
and thus are nothing to cling to.
To feel happy without depending on happiness,
to feel sadness without dwelling in it,
that's all you need for non-attachment.
Then you can wander across the stream of samsara
without ever getting your feet wet.
.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby byamspa » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:30 pm

Better to get rid of that which thinks it needs purifying.

The four boundless, including maitri, are truley realized when they can stand on their own without an owner in the way. However, due to deep delusion and ignorance, this is very difficult to do. So by meditating on loving kindness, one starts to soften the hard mindheart of delusion and the truth of things starts to shine through.

Then there can be a path toward true maitri, karuna, mudita and upeksha.
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Ayu » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:49 pm

purestsoul wrote:...
The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness. ...


The highest realms of the universe are not out of the world. It is still Samsara.
If you reach there, you still havn't got out of Samsara.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby purestsoul » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:14 pm

Ayu wrote:
purestsoul wrote:...
The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness. ...


The highest realms of the universe are not out of the world. It is still Samsara.
If you reach there, you still havn't got out of Samsara.


How do you know that?

Have you reached the highest realms of the Universe?

Have you freed yourself from Samsara?
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby heart » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:33 pm

purestsoul wrote:
Ayu wrote:
purestsoul wrote:...
The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness. ...


The highest realms of the universe are not out of the world. It is still Samsara.
If you reach there, you still havn't got out of Samsara.


How do you know that?

Have you reached the highest realms of the Universe?

Have you freed yourself from Samsara?


Have you? :smile:

/magnus
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Ayu » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:39 pm

purestsoul wrote:
Ayu wrote:
purestsoul wrote:...
The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness. ...


The highest realms of the universe are not out of the world. It is still Samsara.
If you reach there, you still havn't got out of Samsara.


How do you know that?

Have you reached the highest realms of the Universe?

Have you freed yourself from Samsara?

I'm sorry. My teacher said so, and he knows it from the Lamrim-teachings of Tsongkhapa.
There are six realms , where beings are living - one of them are the hells and one of them are the highest realms where gods and godesses live... This is all samsara still. Buddha taught that so.
If these highest realms are within this universe, as you said, they are bound to be in samsara.
Because nirvana is a state of mind - and it is here.
:namaste: sorry, i don't want to bother.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:55 pm

In a Buddhist context, love, compassion, equanimity, all the paramitas, all these kinds of things are not necessarily "emotions" like they are in western psych or religion etc. I think the point of something like Tonglen or Metta or whatever is not just to make you feel good or make you nicer to others, it is to turn around your view at a deep level.

These are about one's relation to, and view of the "outside" world..the more you practice them, the more you open and the line between "inside" and "outside" fades, so not only are they important, but from a Mahayana POV they are instrumental in the realization of emptiness.

Also, trying to focus on "nothingness" to blot other stuff out is warned against really specifically in a number of texts, some of them say the conscious attempts at "nothingness" or repression/stopping of thought can lead to an animal rebirth!
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby seeker242 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:14 am

purestsoul wrote:Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara.

The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness.

When one is attached to the meditation on love, then the highest realms which one can ascend are the realms of form.

Because one is still attached to sensual desires.

To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

For that is how one can achieve the infinity of consciousness.


If you have no thoughts then how are you going to find food to eat? How are you going to know where the bathroom is? :shrug: :smile:
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:15 am

purestsoul wrote: Have you reached the highest realms of the Universe?

"highest realms of the Universe" is an absurd concept.
purestsoul wrote:Have you freed yourself from Samsara?

"self" can never be freed from samsara.
.
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:36 am

purestsoul wrote:Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara.

Buddha never said it would.
purestsoul wrote:The highest realms in all of universe are the immaterial realms where the focus of meditation is no nothingness and infinity of consciousness.

On what basis do you claim the validity of this?
purestsoul wrote:When one is attached to the meditation on love, then the highest realms which one can ascend are the realms of form.

Define "meditation on love".
purestsoul wrote:Because one is still attached to sensual desires.

the "one" is a manifestation of attachment to sensual desires.
No sensual desires, no more "one". So, the two cannot be separated as you suggest.
purestsoul wrote:To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

I already addressed that one and eagerly await your reply.
purestsoul wrote:For that is how one can achieve the infinity of consciousness.

it isn't consciousness that is infinite.
Consciousness arises due to conditions.
The ground of awareness is boundless,
and that has doesn't need to be achieved
because you are already experiencing it,
although not clearly.

However, if this is what you are set on,
then perhaps this might interest you:
http://www.amazon.com/Kung-Fu-Complete- ... B000X07TLA
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby Jikan » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:54 am

This thread will be of interest: the brilliant Garchen Rinpoche on love...

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10979
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby randomseb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:03 am

purestsoul wrote:Because one is still attached to sensual desires.

To get out of the cycle of samsara of rebirth and death, one has to eliminate all traces of emotions from one being, no love no hate no thoughts absolutely nothingness.

For that is how one can achieve the infinity of consciousness.


You are attached to the desire of gain

If you eliminate, you are busy doing something, not being aware of "emptiness", which is not nothingness. Do not misinterpret the teachings. The majority of them explain this point.

In reality, everything just as it is right now is just right for your awakening. Emotions and all. Don't be attached to any particular emotion, don't be repulsed from any particular emotion, just let them be and observe.

Lastly:

"Buddhist texts caution against treating consciousness as the ultimate reality. Consciousness is only a projection of the original nature" - quoted from http://creative.sulekha.com/consciousness-a-buddhist-view_422379_blog
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Re: Meditation on Love will not break you out of Samsara

Postby undefineable » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:In a Buddhist context, love, compassion, equanimity, all the paramitas, all these kinds of things are not necessarily "emotions" like they are in western psych or religion etc. I think the point of something like Tonglen or Metta or whatever is not just to make you feel good or make you nicer to others, it is to turn around your view at a deep level.

These are about one's relation to, and view of the "outside" world..the more you practice them, the more you open and the line between "inside" and "outside" fades, so not only are they important, but from a Mahayana POV they are instrumental in the realization of emptiness.

Also, trying to focus on "nothingness" to blot other stuff out is warned against really specifically in a number of texts, some of them say the conscious attempts at "nothingness" or repression/stopping of thought can lead to an animal rebirth!

:good:
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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