The Third Eye

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:15 pm

Motova wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
If Motova wishes to discuss his experiences with people via Private Message, it is completely up to them, accounts of and discussion concerning his specific experiences in this thread are now officially over.

I anybody wishes to post some more in- depth information or links to nimitta now would be a good time to do it.
:namaste:

PS No more teasing and snide remarks.


It appears everyone got hung up on the title. I have found some quotes recently that seem to answer what I have been experiencing, and it seems to be almost exactly how I remember explaining it in this thread. But Greg decided to delete my post and halt the thread, no hard feelings Greg. :cheers:

"Generally, the visions begin with lights and patterns of light. The Light is colored - often one or two colors will dominate, or a color may not manifest at all. There are specific shapes and colors associated with each element as it begins to manifest in its purer form: square yellow shapes for earth; circular blue shapes for water; triangular red shapes for fire; green rectangular shapes for air; and white semicircular shapes for space. Eventually fragments of images appear, usually fleeting and unclear. Over time they become whole and stable. The progression is not random. As the practice deepens, the main channels and chakras open and karmic blocks and habitual tendencies dissolve in the nature of mind. The obscurations that clothe the pure elements in apparent substantiality are cleared and the visions become correspondingly purer. They become more complete and vivid, and the colors are more balanced. Visions of deities, goddesses, mandalas, sacred syllables, and symbols arise."

Page 132

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Mark Dahlby. Healing with form, energy and light: the five elements in Tibetan Shamanism, Tantra, and Dzogchen. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Pub., 2002. Print.



"More specifically, during the first stage there are two lights, one internal and one external. When we start to practice, we feel as if a light or coming out of us. Here the symbol of the light is the "tigle of the rigpa of the color of glass," which means one feels as if one were looking through the bottom of a glass. The tigles are very luminous and can vary in size; the smallest can be the size of a pea, others can be much bigger. Also many tigles can appear joined together in various ways, horizontally, vertically, etc., forming strands or chains, in which case they are called the "the right of compassion" or the "silver thread," as they are white and luminous and resemble silver. The tigles can appear singly or joined together; there are no limits to possibilities of vision.

Page 169

"At times it seems it is the vision that is moving, at other times we might think it is our eyes, or that the movement is internal, the inner energy of rigpa. In fact, in togel everything is connected: external vision, the eyes, and the internal energy, and in the first stage everything moves together. But it is important to understand that once presence is adequately stable we can stop the movement. This is what is described as "catching the fish in the net of darkness," fixing the movement through stable presence."

Page 170

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Andrew Lukianowicz. Wonders of the natural mind: the essence of Dzogchen in the native Bon tradition of Tibet. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Publications, 2000. Print.
:




:rolleye:

You seriously believe you are a dzogchen practitioner because you can provoke some light phenomenon when you concentrate your mind in a certain way?

You really need a teacher. Although I am not sure you will like what he is going to tell you. :crazy:
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:09 pm

theanarchist wrote:

:rolleye:

You seriously believe you are a dzogchen practitioner because you can provoke some light phenomenon when you concentrate your mind in a certain way?

You really need a teacher. Although I am not sure you will like what he is going to tell you. :crazy:


I never said anything of that sort, you did.
I'm not a Dzogchen practitioner,
nor do I have to concentrate.
I was merely sharing some quotes that describe my ongoing experience.
And I actually have scheduled a meeting a with teacher in a week.
So hopefully that goes well. :thumbsup:
Thanks for your concern. :quoteunquote:
:cheers:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:41 am

Motova wrote:It appears everyone got hung up on the title. I have found some quotes recently that seem to answer what I have been experiencing,




"Generally, the visions begin with lights and patterns of light. The Light is colored - often one or two colors will dominate, or a color may not manifest at all. There are specific shapes and colors associated with each element as it begins to manifest in its purer form: square yellow shapes for earth; circular blue shapes for water; triangular red shapes for fire; green rectangular shapes for air; and white semicircular shapes for space. Eventually fragments of images appear, usually fleeting and unclear. Over time they become whole and stable. The progression is not random. As the practice deepens, the main channels and chakras open and karmic blocks and habitual tendencies dissolve in the nature of mind. The obscurations that clothe the pure elements in apparent substantiality are cleared and the visions become correspondingly purer. They become more complete and vivid, and the colors are more balanced. Visions of deities, goddesses, mandalas, sacred syllables, and symbols arise."

Page 132

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Mark Dahlby. Healing with form, energy and light: the five elements in Tibetan Shamanism, Tantra, and Dzogchen. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Pub., 2002. Print.



"More specifically, during the first stage there are two lights, one internal and one external. When we start to practice, we feel as if a light or coming out of us. Here the symbol of the light is the "tigle of the rigpa of the color of glass," which means one feels as if one were looking through the bottom of a glass. The tigles are very luminous and can vary in size; the smallest can be the size of a pea, others can be much bigger. Also many tigles can appear joined together in various ways, horizontally, vertically, etc., forming strands or chains, in which case they are called the "the right of compassion" or the "silver thread," as they are white and luminous and resemble silver. The tigles can appear singly or joined together; there are no limits to possibilities of vision.

Page 169

"At times it seems it is the vision that is moving, at other times we might think it is our eyes, or that the movement is internal, the inner energy of rigpa. In fact, in togel everything is connected: external vision, the eyes, and the internal energy, and in the first stage everything moves together. But it is important to understand that once presence is adequately stable we can stop the movement. This is what is described as "catching the fish in the net of darkness," fixing the movement through stable presence."

Page 170

Wangyal, Tenzin, and Andrew Lukianowicz. Wonders of the natural mind: the essence of Dzogchen in the native Bon tradition of Tibet. Ithaca, NY: Snow Lion Publications, 2000. Print.
:





You are claiming that with this simple meditation technique you learned on the internet you can produce the same results as a Dzogchen practitioner.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:43 am

theanarchist wrote:You are claiming that with this simple meditation technique you learned on the internet you can produce the same results as a Dzogchen practitioner.


I am sure that that was not the single cause to the situation.

When I was very small (age 3), I had experienced seeing many white orbs one night (I thought they were pacman ghosts), and it resulted in me developing a strong fear of the dark and ghosts. Making me sleep with the lights on and with my pillow and blanket over my head for many years. I basically tried to avoid being in the dark for all my childhood, actually running out of dark rooms and basements.

Moreover, when was aged 6 I had a fascination with pushing on my eyeballs slightly to produce colours, and I had even concluded that I was seeing my own thoughts. Though my parents laughed it off and I dropped it within a week.

Maybe I am wrong, but I have been looking for descriptions of what I am seeing for about two years and this explains it to a tee.

So I would appreciate it if you didn't come off as condescending, because coming on this thread and calling me crazy or saying I need a teacher has already been done. :applause:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby tobes » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:21 am

Motova wrote:
So I would appreciate it if you didn't come off as condescending, because coming on this thread and calling me crazy or saying I need a teacher has already been done. :applause:


Totally fair enough Motova.

DW posters: can we please make some kind of effort to duly respect this young man who has done nothing but be candid and genuine.

:anjali:
User avatar
tobes
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:02 am

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Virgo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:45 am

Your avatar is bad feng shui, dude.

Kevin
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:37 am

tobes wrote:
Motova wrote:
So I would appreciate it if you didn't come off as condescending, because coming on this thread and calling me crazy or saying I need a teacher has already been done. :applause:


Totally fair enough Motova.

DW posters: can we please make some kind of effort to duly respect this young man who has done nothing but be candid and genuine.

:anjali:


Does it matter anymore? What else is there to say? It feels like this thread has run it's course, it seems I'll just get rehashed answers or garbage, like this:

Virgo wrote:Your avatar is bad feng shui, dude.

Kevin


I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with me recounting my experiences. I know it's taboo. But I think if anyone of you were going through the same thing, it wouldn't be much different. Luckily I am not sworn to secrecy, and am not required to pussyfoot around. I don't care if anyone believes me, I have been fully honest in my posts. It is what it is. Hopefully this thread will be of benefit for others.

As I have stated, I have scheduled a meeting with Khenpo Sonam Rinpoche for next week and hopefully he will be of much help on my spiritual journey. It will certainly be an interesting meeting. :toilet:

If useless posts keep on getting posted and this thread continues to degenerate, I wish this thread be locked again.

:cheers:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby reddust » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:45 am

Motova

As I have stated, I have scheduled a meeting with Khenpo Sonam Rinpoche for next week and hopefully he will be of much help on my spiritual journey.


Khenpo Sonam from Canada? He is one of my teachers. I ran a little Medicine Buddha group in Chicago for him. Wasn't a very popular group, no one came except me and a few friends but it did a world of good for me.

Watch out if it's him, he is a sneaky old man, he get you in all sorts of troubles and you'll have to figure out how to fix them :thumbsup:

EDIT: I love that him very much too. :namaste:
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
User avatar
reddust
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: The Third Eye

Postby muni » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:20 am

You really need a teacher. Although I am not sure you will like what he is going to tell you.


Even this advice is common on the internet, I am not sure it is the encouragement fellows need. :smile:

In any case, guidance is based on wisdom- compassion, can be experienced as "hard or soft" sometimes but is never by judgement.
muni
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: The Third Eye

Postby muni » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:57 am

I had a talk few days ago with a scientist who told me, we don’t see with our eyes, we see with the brain. And that brain is cheating us, she told me. Woopsee, this clarifies something.

Anyway, then the conversation went into more specific details and these went as quick out as they came in, so forgot a bit. I am sure there must be info on the internet about.

But the third eye-expression, can be a pointing to the wisdom-eye by which there is no distorted perception or view, and this eye is metaphor as it is not a thing.
An example can be Chenrezig or Avalokiteshvara; seeing in each corner/everywhere without any obstruction in order to help.( symbolic 1000 eyes ) Maybe this is already written in the tread.

:namaste:
muni
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:52 pm

Motova wrote:I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with me recounting my experiences. I know it's taboo.



No, it it not taboo, because what you experience is not a spiritual phenomenon but most likely a neurological/medical one even if superficially it may appear similar.


It would be taboo to talk about experiences that are the result of dzogchen practices.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:08 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Motova wrote:I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with me recounting my experiences. I know it's taboo.



No, it it not taboo, because what you experience is not a spiritual phenomenon but most likely a neurological/medical one even if superficially it may appear similar.


It would be taboo to talk about experiences that are the result of dzogchen practices.


O buddy... have you even read this thread?

You are sort of late to the show.

Do you want this thread closed?

I don't know what you want...

Ok I am crazy, now get off my thread.

:rolleye:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:31 pm

Hey, it is you who is claiming that you experience the same thing as what a dzogchen yogi experiences, and you are the one who is thinking that it therefor falls under the "not talking about meditative experiences" taboo that comes with Dzogchen.

No matter what it is you are experience, the buddhist point of view is that getting attached to those experiences is an obstacle.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Motova wrote:
I don't know what you want...:



You obviously want that people confirm your idea that the light phenomenon you experience are a genuine spiritual phenomenon and are obviously getting a bit worked up and emotional if that doesn't go according to your plan.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby muni » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:40 pm

Motova wrote:
theanarchist wrote:
Motova wrote:I'm sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with me recounting my experiences. I know it's taboo.



No, it it not taboo, because what you experience is not a spiritual phenomenon but most likely a neurological/medical one even if superficially it may appear similar.


It would be taboo to talk about experiences that are the result of dzogchen practices.


O buddy... have you even read this thread?


I went through it and I am happy you will meet a teacher. Such meeting can be the start of a relationship based on trust. Then nothing about what you say will remain unclarified.

Good luck. :smile:
muni
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:03 pm

muni wrote:I went through it and I am happy you will meet a teacher. Such meeting can be the start of a relationship based on trust. Then nothing about what you say will remain unclarified.



Definitely.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:16 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Motova wrote:
I don't know what you want...:



You obviously want that people confirm your idea that the light phenomenon you experience are a genuine spiritual phenomenon and are obviously getting a bit worked up and emotional if that doesn't go according to your plan.


I'm looking for an answer. Of course I want it to be "genuine spiritual phenomenon", I don't want to have a brain disorder or be crazy. Duh. :roll:

I am getting "emotional" because you haven't said anything new.

If it's a neurological/medical problem can you actually link me to a specific disorder with the symptoms I have listed? If not, don't waste my time.

:popcorn:

theanarchist wrote:Hey, it is you who is claiming that you experience the same thing as what a dzogchen yogi experiences, and you are the one who is thinking that it therefor falls under the "not talking about meditative experiences" taboo that comes with Dzogchen.

No matter what it is you are experience, the buddhist point of view is that getting attached to those experiences is an obstacle.


:shrug:

Just because I post my experiences on some forum, doesn't mean I'm attached. I hope you don't feel you know me or my situation after reading any or all of my postings.

I feel I am doing a pretty good job, considering I have no teacher. :coffee:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Virgo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:38 pm

Nevermind. Sorry.

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Virgo
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: The Third Eye

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Motova wrote: Of course I want it to be "genuine spiritual phenomenon", I don't want to have a brain disorder or be crazy. Duh. :roll:

Just because I post my experiences on some forum, doesn't mean I'm attached. I hope you don't feel you know me or my situation after reading any or all of my postings.


The fact that you want it to be a spiritual phenomenon and NOT want it to be a medical phenomenon shows pretty clearly that you are attached to the "specialness" and spiritual nature of your experience as well as the experience itself.



Motova wrote:I am getting "emotional" because you haven't said anything new.


There is nothing new to say. You are claiming the lights you see are the same as genuine experiences of advanced Vajrayana meditation. I tell you, it is not.


Motova wrote:If it's a neurological/medical problem can you actually link me to a specific disorder with the symptoms I have listed? If not, don't waste my time.


I suggest you consult a psychiatrist/neurologist. Something I am not. So don't waste your time asking me to diagnose something like that.

Motova wrote:I feel I am doing a pretty good job, considering I have no teacher. :coffee:


Yes, you are making wild guesses and mope around if they are not confirmed.
theanarchist
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: The Third Eye

Postby Motova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:57 pm

theanarchist wrote:
Motova wrote: Of course I want it to be "genuine spiritual phenomenon", I don't want to have a brain disorder or be crazy. Duh. :roll:

Just because I post my experiences on some forum, doesn't mean I'm attached. I hope you don't feel you know me or my situation after reading any or all of my postings.


The fact that you want it to be a spiritual phenomenon and NOT want it to be a medical phenomenon shows pretty clearly that you are attached to the "specialness" and spiritual nature of your experience as well as the experience itself.



Motova wrote:I am getting "emotional" because you haven't said anything new.


There is nothing new to say. You are claiming the lights you see are the same as genuine experiences of advanced Vajrayana meditation. I tell you, it is not.


Motova wrote:If it's a neurological/medical problem can you actually link me to a specific disorder with the symptoms I have listed? If not, don't waste my time.


I suggest you consult a psychiatrist/neurologist. Something I am not. So don't waste your time asking me to diagnose something like that.

Motova wrote:I feel I am doing a pretty good job, considering I have no teacher. :coffee:


Yes, you are making wild guesses and mope around if they are not confirmed.


You aren't being very innovative or helpful.
Of course I am attached, I am in samsara. What do you expect? But I acknowledge that, and I am in the process of seeing multiple doctors and a teacher. What more can I do?
I am not making wild guesses, do you think I have made it this far by making wild guesses? I am open to being wrong, if you can put forth a valid argument and evidence.

Before posting in this thread again, please actually READ IT.

:crazy:
Motova
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Tibetan Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: deff, heart, Karma_Yeshe, Norwegian, ratna, uan, zenman and 36 guests

>