Indian Vajrayana

[Skydancer]

I know this sub-forum's title says "Tibetan Buddhism".

I would really love to know more about Indian Vajrayana the way it was practiced in the time of Indian Buddhist Mahasiddhas, like Tilopa, Saraha, Padmasambhava etc.. Is is still alive? Any good books (in English) on the subject?

[TsultimNamdak]

A very good academic work on the subject is Ronald M Davidson: Indian Esoteric Buddhism - A Social History of the Tantric Movement. Columbia University Press, 2002.

[gregkavarnos]

Masters of Mahamudra by Keith Dowman is excellent.

[futerko]

A very good academic work on the subject is Ronald M Davidson: Indian Esoteric Buddhism - A Social History of the Tantric Movement. Columbia University Press, 2002.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81263676/Indi ... M-Davidson

[deepbluehum]

I know this sub-forum's title says "Tibetan Buddhism".

I would really love to know more about Indian Vajrayana the way it was practiced in the time of Indian Buddhist Mahasiddhas, like Tilopa, Saraha, Padmasambhava etc.. Is is still alive? Any good books (in English) on the subject?

The way it's practiced today is hardly similar to the way it was. But the best copy is Sakya Hevajra practice.

[Indrajala]

Tantra in China predates Tibetan Vajrayāna. There's a good work on this subject which discusses to some extent the early situation in India as well as the Indian masters which transmitted the practices and teachings:

Esoteric Buddhism and the Tantras in East Asia

It is prohibitively expensive, but if you snoop around online there are pdfs.

[Sherlock]

Tantric practice in China and Tibet historically represents yoga tantra and earlier practised in Indian monasteries circa 7th to 9th centuries. Anuttara yoga tantra never diffused there. It is Indian as well, just stemming from a slightly later period and practised outside of and at the fringes of monasteries. The higher yoga tantras don't require many outward signs of purity -- that's the key difference.

The Newaris also have an independent transmission of Indian Vajrayana with the HYTs.

[Indrajala]

Tantric practice in China and Tibet historically represents yoga tantra and earlier practised in Indian monasteries circa 7th to 9th centuries. Anuttara yoga tantra never diffused there. It is Indian as well, just stemming from a slightly later period and practised outside of and at the fringes of monasteries. The higher yoga tantras don't require many outward signs of purity -- that's the key difference.

The Newaris also have an independent transmission of Indian Vajrayana with the HYTs.

Of course.

I think, though, the East Asian component and relevant Indian teachers and scriptures often get overlooked when Tibetan Buddhists discuss Indian Vajrayāna. The key texts and early masters of East Asian tantra all came from India directly, though they predate anything in Tibet.

[gregkavarnos]

Tantric Treasure: Three Collections of Mysical Verse from Buddhist India, 2004, Roger R. Jackson, Oxford University Press.

Another one of my absolute favorites!

[Yudron]

Tantric Treasure: Three Collections of Mysical Verse from Buddhist India, 2004, Roger R. Jackson, Oxford University Press.

Another one of my absolute favorites!

Thanks, Greg! I didn't know about that one. I just ordered a Nook e-book version from Barnes and Noble.

[Jikan]

I know this sub-forum's title says "Tibetan Buddhism".

I would really love to know more about Indian Vajrayana the way it was practiced in the time of Indian Buddhist Mahasiddhas, like Tilopa, Saraha, Padmasambhava etc.. Is is still alive? Any good books (in English) on the subject?

The way it's practiced today is hardly similar to the way it was. But the best copy is Sakya Hevajra practice.

I've heard different claims about which contemporary practice most closely resembles what may have been practiced in ancient India. This discussion gets complicated fast because Japanese esoteric practices seem to have their historical origins in a slightly earlier period historically than those which were transmitted in Tibet (as Huseng observes), so their originals may look a bit different... which means that differences between Japanese and Himalayan variants in practice may reflect different origins rather than a difference from an identical ancestor, if that makes sense. Thus have I heard, at least.

[lama tsewang]

hello, just i have one thought. I have noticed that lots of writings mention these grest Siddhas , who lived on their own , and were iconoclastic etc, But lots of things I have read , mention that Tantric practise was a part of the normal curriculum at Nalanda , and Vikramashila. Also, at one time Tantric was veery widespreda in Shri Lanka ,. In the introduction to Visuddhimagga , it mentions that the book was written to try to gain hegemony over The Mahayana Theravadins , and the Vajrayan Theravadins.
Tsewang

[Karma Dorje]

hello, just i have one thought. I have noticed that lots of writings mention these grest Siddhas , who lived on their own , and were iconoclastic etc, But lots of things I have read , mention that Tantric practise was a part of the normal curriculum at Nalanda , and Vikramashila. Also, at one time Tantric was veery widespreda in Shri Lanka ,. In the introduction to Visuddhimagga , it mentions that the book was written to try to gain hegemony over The Mahayana Theravadins , and the Vajrayan Theravadins.
Tsewang

That's interesting, Tsewang. Could you please cite the source for the Nalanda and Vikramashila curricula? Did that include consort practice?

[Skydancer]

Thanks to all for your replies. You were very helpful.