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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:26 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
I am finding it a very painfully difficult practice, I agree that it is fantastic though.
:namaste:


I understand that, but Vajrasattva is vast as space*, if you remember that it will become easier.

* title of a famous Dzogchen tantra "Dorje Sempa Namkha Che"

/magnus

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Yeah, so my lama tells me, but I'm sure he's only as big as the space between my ears! :smile:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:55 pm 
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The lung of the ngondro was sufficient for my lamas in the Dudjom Tersar and the Longchen Nyingthig tradition. But, of course, we all receive wangs for Vajrasattva and Guru Rinpoche at some point.

conebeckham wrote:
In Sakya, ngondro is a bit different. Kagyupas and Nyingmapas are used to doing ngondro, including Vajrasattva, as a "main practice" prior to deity yoga, etc. Completing the 400,000 accumulations of prostrations, refuge, Vajrasattva, Mandala, and Guru Yoga is often a prerequisite for the so-called "Advanced practices" in Kagyu and Nyingma lineages.

In the Sakya lineage, the ngondro practices come AFTER (or together with) the deity yoga practice, in Lamdre and also in VY practice. Sakya most definitely have Vajrasattva practice, but it's usually a part of other deity sadhanas--Hevajra and Vajrayogini, mainly. However, some Sakyapas may practice Vajrasattva on it's own, as well, possibly from various Terma traditions.

Whether for ngondro or as a main, yidam practice, the empowerment is important, in Kagyu, Geluk, and Nyingma. I can't say for the Sakyas. It is possible, and beneficial to a degree, to recite the mantra and liturgy, I'm sure, but every Kagyu and Nyingma lama I've known indicates that, for counting the accumulations, the empowerment is a prerequisite. I'm sure this is also the case, for purposes of a "yidam retreat" when one practices in a group setting, as the Gelukpas sometimes do with Heruka Vajrasattva, and as the Nyingmapas do, for example, with Minling Dorsem, Chogling DorSem, Red Vajrasattva, or Dudjom DorSem Lama Chopa.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:04 am 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Yeah, so my lama tells me, but I'm sure he's only as big as the space between my ears! :smile:


:smile: that might be the problem then.

My Guru asked me to do more Vajrasattva and Mandala a few years ago. I also thought it was quite difficult. Then I realized that I was focusing to much on the visualization, without doubt a habit from my Ngondro days. It seemed to me that putting more effort in to the appreciation of Vajrasattvas qualities and less on the actual visualization and instead just trust that the purification would happen in that space of that appreciation brought out the Guru Yoga in the Vajrasattva practice. I remembered that I read somewhere that Tulku Urgyen used to tell his students that they only needed to do the visualization a little in the beginning and when they were distracted and just rest in the natural state the rest of the recitation. Quite marvelous, it somehow it brings out the "Vajrasattva vast as space".
Then the mantra is also sometimes said to be the seed-syllables of the peaceful and wrathful deities; I think you can find some cause for appreciation in that. Also,if you got the transmission there are many Nyingma practices were you do the self-visualization as Vajrasattva, doing them is a wonderful way of discovering all the qualities of Vajrasattva practice. The full practice found at http://prayer4peace.net is actually quite fantastic and includes a self-visualization.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:49 am 
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Karma chakme says 600,000 OM BENZA SATTO HUNG is equilant to 100 000 or 400 000 hundred syllables.

http://books.google.fi/books?id=eiXR8LK ... 00&f=false

Which tantra reveales it?
Did Buddha tell this? Or Padmasambhava?
If Buddha told it, does it purify violations of samaya from termas? If Padmasambhava told it, does it purify violations of samaya from Chakrasamvara, Kalachakra, etc.?

Does terma initiations bring 14 tantric vows? I mean Amitayus long life initiation from Konchog Chidu?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:36 pm 
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pael wrote:
Karma chakme says 600,000 OM BENZA SATTO HUNG is equilant to 100 000 or 400 000 hundred syllables.

http://books.google.fi/books?id=eiXR8LK ... 00&f=false

Which tantra reveales it?
Did Buddha tell this? Or Padmasambhava?
If Buddha told it, does it purify violations of samaya from termas? If Padmasambhava told it, does it purify violations of samaya from Chakrasamvara, Kalachakra, etc.?

Does terma initiations bring 14 tantric vows? I mean Amitayus long life initiation from Konchog Chidu?


When I did my Ngondro I did both 100.00 long and 600.000 short mantras, that was required in my Sangha.

Vajrasattva is one of the oldest Tantric deities with clear linage to all Tibetan schools and that includes kama, terma and sarma. No need to worry. If you feel dirty and ask me for help I will show your were there is water, soap and a towel. What is the point of asking "is it sure this water,soap and towel will actually make me clean?"? Just go ahead and try it, or not. Remember it was you that said you needed it.

/magnus

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- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:01 pm 
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No body didn't told me to do that.
I just don't know what to do.
I feel that I have broken samaya.
Can mantras be whispered? It's too tough to do them loud?
Must purification happen during lifetime?
What if death comes before it's finished.
Any quote from Buddha in tantras? I can't find tantras from web?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:50 pm 
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pael wrote:
No body didn't told me to do that.
I just don't know what to do.
I feel that I have broken samaya.
Can mantras be whispered? It's too tough to do them loud?
Must purification happen during lifetime?
What if death comes before it's finished.
Any quote from Buddha in tantras? I can't find tantras from web?


If you feel you broken samaya, you do vajrasattva. Mantras should be said "under your breathe" or whispered normally, even just thinking them have effect. Don't worry about death, making an effort already today will help. I also think you should see if you can find a qualified teacher to study with as well as read some good books, preferably in your own language.

/magnus

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