On Aro gTér

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 24, 2014 9:41 pm

Simon E. wrote:He gave the AroGter the thumbs up. As apparently did Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche.
The thumbs up does not last forever though. I can think of two "geshes" that started out with a slew of thumb's up's and now...

Not to say that that is what happened with the Aro gTer gang, just saying...
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 10158
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Simon E. » Sun May 25, 2014 12:30 am

Maybe...but I remember when they had an almost universal thumbs-down.
And that seems to be changing.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Konchog1 » Sun May 25, 2014 4:19 am

Simon E. wrote:Lama Dawa is currently on a prolonged retreat Adamantine.
But after I read David Chapman's blog I did contact him..and he basically confirmed what Chapman claimed.

I suspect that before long the current view of the AroGter will need to be revisited.
Sorry to post this here but I can't PM you for some reason. Do you about when Lama Dawa will leave retreat? I have somewhat urgent need for a divination. Thank you.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Simon E. » Sun May 25, 2014 8:08 am

I don't know exactly, but from a previous reply it sounds like Adamantine might.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby dzoki » Mon May 26, 2014 7:57 am

kng wrote:Hi everyone

I found interesting statement on Aro gTer webpage. Here you can find the link

Code: Select all
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/l/ldc_ph_01_eng.php


"Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche and a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."

"Through his[lama Dawa's] divinations several incarnations in the Aro gTér line have been discovered and various important connections have been made."

Everybody can make their own decision.

kng


Ngagchang was never a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche, he just hung out with him for some time in Nepal. So already the first part of this statement is false. Now that Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche passed away anyone can claim anything.
dzoki
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon May 26, 2014 10:27 am

Simon E. wrote:And that seems to be changing.
Samsara dude! :smile:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 10158
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 26, 2014 11:24 am

Indeed. :o
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2544
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby kng » Mon May 26, 2014 3:24 pm

dzoki wrote:
Ngagchang was never a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche


Please tell me reference.
They all are buddhas, they just don't tell me, because they feel ashamed, that I am not.
Lama Ole Nydahl
User avatar
kng
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:26 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Karma_Yeshe » Mon May 26, 2014 3:54 pm

dzoki wrote:
kng wrote:Hi everyone

I found interesting statement on Aro gTer webpage. Here you can find the link

Code: Select all
http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/l/ldc_ph_01_eng.php


"Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche and a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."

"Through his[lama Dawa's] divinations several incarnations in the Aro gTér line have been discovered and various important connections have been made."

Everybody can make their own decision.

kng


Ngagchang was never a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche, he just hung out with him for some time in Nepal. So already the first part of this statement is false. Now that Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche passed away anyone can claim anything.


To my best understanding, the sentence you quoted does not say that Ngagchang was a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche. It merely says that Lama Dawa Chodak Rinpoche is a co-disciple of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche, because "Lama Dawa Chodakh Rinpoche" ist the main subject of the sentence. Otherwise the sentence should read something like "Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche, who is a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."
User avatar
Karma_Yeshe
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 3:47 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby dzoki » Mon May 26, 2014 4:08 pm

kng wrote:
dzoki wrote:
Ngagchang was never a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche


Please tell me reference.


You can ask students of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche (the ones from Asia, not the Westerners, they don´t have a clue), also there was a statement on this matter from Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche himself, but it has since disappeared from the web. Do your own research, seriously.

It is very sad that this crazy charlatan - "Ngagpa" Chogyam is getting more and more attention, it would be best to let his "lineage" of made up people (Aro Lingma and Khalden (sic!) Lingpa) die like a small fire in the wet grass.
By the way some years ago I pointed out in the discussion (probably here on DW) that Rangrig Dorje could not have been father of Aro lingma (the dates did not fit) and lo now they changed it to him being guru of her mother. They (Chogyam or his people) certainly do read on-line discussions. Well they can improve on their made up lineage history all they want, it still won´t make the lineage more authentic. Anyways this pile of manure is not something I want to stain my hands with. So I won´t post in this thread anymore.
dzoki
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon May 26, 2014 4:14 pm

Karma_Yeshe wrote:To my best understanding, the sentence you quoted does not say that Ngagchang was a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche. It merely says that Lama Dawa Chodak Rinpoche is a co-disciple of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche, because "Lama Dawa Chodakh Rinpoche" ist the main subject of the sentence. Otherwise the sentence should read something like "Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche, who is a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."

As a native English speaker, I can tell you that the sentence
"Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche and a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."
does indeed imply that Ngak’chang is or was a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche.
Also from this page http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/k/kdr_ph_04_eng.php:
Ngak’chang Rinpoche comments:
"Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche is my Tsawa’i Lama and heart master.
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Mon May 26, 2014 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
User avatar
dzogchungpa
 
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Karma_Yeshe » Mon May 26, 2014 4:25 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Karma_Yeshe wrote:To my best understanding, the sentence you quoted does not say that Ngagchang was a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche. It merely says that Lama Dawa Chodak Rinpoche is a co-disciple of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche, because "Lama Dawa Chodakh Rinpoche" ist the main subject of the sentence. Otherwise the sentence should read something like "Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche, who is a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."

As a native English speaker, I can tell you that the sentence
"Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche is a friend of Ngak’chang Rinpoche and a co-disciple of Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche."
does indeed imply that Ngak’chang Rinpoche Ngak’chang is a student of Kunzang Dorje Rinpoche.
Also from this page http://aroencyclopaedia.org/shared/text/k/kdr_ph_04_eng.php:
Ngak’chang Rinpoche comments:
"Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche is my Tsawa’i Lama and heart master.


Ok. Thank you. Because of my somewhat doubtfull command of the english language I hesitated posting on this forum (now I feel that all my hesitations where quite right). Interesting, how the heart master's of Ngak'chang change over years, after someone has died...
User avatar
Karma_Yeshe
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 3:47 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby smcj » Mon May 26, 2014 4:35 pm

A Google search result relevant to this thread.

http://drala-jong.blogspot.com/2008/02/venue-to-host-honoured-guests.html

Lama Tharchin has passed, but he was reputed to be a good lama. I'm sure the claims cited by this page could be confirmed to denied by his students in Santa Cruz, if anybody has enough interest to check it out. I personally don't.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby ngodrup » Mon May 26, 2014 5:05 pm

I was introduced to Lama Tharchin by NCR.
Attachments
LTRin Wales.jpg
LTRin Wales.jpg (56.38 KiB) Viewed 546 times
ngodrup
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon May 26, 2014 6:39 pm

ngodrup wrote:I was introduced to Lama Tharchin by NCR.

So what is your impression of NCR?
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
User avatar
dzogchungpa
 
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby smcj » Mon May 26, 2014 7:37 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
ngodrup wrote:I was introduced to Lama Tharchin by NCR.

So what is your impression of NCR?

While you're at it, what was your impression of Lama Tharchin?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby ngodrup » Mon May 26, 2014 8:48 pm

My comments about NCR are seen elsewhere.
No, I am not a disciple.

Quite frankly, I'm glad that this is not e-sangha where the mere
mention of his name was verboten. I think it is possible to have
a more middle-way, nuanced view, that neither accepts nor rejects.

One doesn't have to accept any specific teacher, but on the remote
possibility that they might be authentic, it behooves one to not
criticize or attack. Even the Dalai Lama says that. I have met
him on several occasions over some 20 years. I openly acknowledge
my gratitude for introducing me to LTR. When I look at the man I know--
however shallowly that may be-- I find it very difficult to place him
in the role of having made this all up and perpetrating such a vast hoax.
He is kind and genuinely helpful, readily refers people to suitable resources.
I ask: Why would a con man refuse customers? I know several people who
approached him and requested an apprenticeship application who were refused.
He sent them to specific Tibetan Lamas, saying, "you'll really do much better
with that one." That kind of thing, that I've witnessed, looks like integrity to me.

As for Lama Tharchin, who can describe a mahasiddha? He was humble beyond
any reason. Rinpoche's kindness was not limited to teaching. He was in the lives
of his students. Some of the younger ones were met by him in the hospital even
before their own mothers! Yes, this was a Lama who made hospital visits,
house calls, telephone calls, visited people in their dreams, taught shedra, drupdra,
art, music, liturgy, dance. If that wasn't enough, he introduced his Dharma friends
to DungseThinley Norbu Rinpoche, Chagdud Tulku Rnpoche, Namkha Drime Rinpoche,
Ahnam Thubten Rinpoche and others ... as well as several worthy Western Lamas.
Last edited by ngodrup on Mon May 26, 2014 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ngodrup
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Malcolm » Mon May 26, 2014 8:55 pm

ngodrup wrote:My comments about NCR are seen elsewhere.
No, I am not a disciple.

Quite frankly, I'm glad that this is not e-sangha where the mere
mention of his name was verboten.


The point of that was that the conversation always degenerated into a fight. So we decided it was best not to discuss the issue since there is no resolution to it.

Basically, this is just a mild rerun of those same threads.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12493
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon May 26, 2014 9:11 pm

ngodrup wrote:My comments about NCR are seen elsewhere.

May I ask where?
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
User avatar
dzogchungpa
 
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: On Aro gTér

Postby Lindama » Mon May 26, 2014 9:59 pm

ngodrup wrote:As for Lama Tharchin, who can describe a mahasiddha? He was humble beyond
any reason. Rinpoche's kindness was not limited to teaching.


:namaste:
I was on Lama Tharchin's property a few times with other teachers 10-20 years ago. Lama Tharchin greeted me warmly and shook my hand in passing. His eyes were so welcoming. yes, mahasiddha.

... and once for a special celebration with hundreds coming worldwide in the 90's, something that only happens every 13 years or so. I went with a friend. It was high ritual, the sangha created all the costumes for the dances. wow!

As for NCR, I take him at face value. I don't understand the controversy, nor do I want to... I never knew about it.

I first met him over 20 years ago. My friend was his disciple. I went with her to a weekend with NCR at Lama Tharchin's place. I was new to Buddhism, I knew nothing. The next time that I saw NCR was last fall in Berkeley teaching the Five Wisdom Emotions from a dzogchen perspective.... from his book, Spectrum of Ecstasy. I can't remember if this is the re-write or the original book.... they both deal with the same material. (possibly, the old title has colors and/or rainbow in the title) Little that I know, he's using colors and emotions to gain a view, a model of energies. That's vajrayana to me, but dunno much. I thought it provided a basis for understanding powerful emotions, presence of awareness, trekchod. But it went far beyond psychology. It seemed to me to be a way to live the dharma. He seems the perfect person to teach it. I can understand how some ppl on this thread, who are associated with him, can communicate free of reactivity. That seems to be what he means by "Spectrum of Ecstasy"

Here's a review of the book from Shambala:
Here two Western-born lamas of the Nyingma tradition of Vajrayana Buddhism explore what it means to be utterly emotionally alive. Written in contemporary, nonacademic language, this book is a radical challenge to the misconception that inner Vajrayana is primarily an esoteric system of ritual and liturgy. The authors teach that emotions can be embraced as a rich and profound opportunity for realization. This fiercely compassionate battle cry rallies all who are audacious enough to appreciate emotions for their supreme potential as vehicles for awakening.
Last edited by Lindama on Mon May 26, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lindama
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Tibetan Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Fa Dao, heart and 17 guests

>