Investigating fake lamas

[Harold]

Do anyone know anything about this woman Dhyani Ywahoo who claims to be both a Cherokee Chief and a Tibetan Khandro.
There are a lot of websites that claim that she's a fake Cherokee. It appears that she claims Dujom Rinpoche gave her the very high title of Khandro.
Thanks

[ngodrup]

Specifically, Yeshe Tsogyal.
She also has the approval of H.H. the Drikung Chetsang.

[Yudron]

She is definitely recognized as a Khandro by authentic lamas.

It does not appear that she is part of a federally recognized band of the Cherokee. It is highly political in Native communities in the U.S. who is viewed as a real Native American and who is not. There are 300 tribes currently seeking Federal recognition in the U.S. and that recognition is a huge financial boon for the tribes who get it. Recognized tribes have to determine what blood quotient tribe members have to be, such as 1/4 or 1/2. There is a lot of controversy over these issues, and also intermarriage with people from other cultures, and whether one lives on a reservation or not, whether one takes part in Pow Wows or not, and so on.

If she is a part of a tiny unregistered band (family) that wandered to Vermont, and doesn't keep contact with the Cherokee Nation, there is almost nobody in this country who is going to stand up for the validity of her band or her status as a Native American. This is understandable. Does that mean she does not carry an authentic tradition from her ancestors? I don't know about that.

She keeps a fairly low profile as a teacher--why put your gun sites on her? If you continue down the path that you have started on you'll find people who doubt the authenticity, ethics, or capacity of every teacher in Tibetan Buddhism.

[Harold]

Didn't both the Buddha and the 14 Dalai Lama teach to examine your teacher for up to 13 years before you accept them. The Dalai Lama said "Spy on me" . Allways question until the day you die.

[JKhedrup]

Up to 12 years is the classic example HH quotes from the texts, but 13 is good too . HH Dalai Lama always mentions how important it is to examine the teacher. But in his Lam Rim teachings you will also find that he says if you can never come to a point of trust and resist every instruction, it can also be an obstacle.
Like everything else, balance is required.

[Yudron]

Didn't both the Buddha and the 14 Dalai Lama teach to examine your teacher for up to 13 years before you accept them. The Dalai Lama said "Spy on me" . Allways question until the day you die.

If you are thinking about taking her as a guru, then by all means continue to examine her.

I'm not.

[Harold]

I googled "Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud" and came across many websites that clearly state that this woman is not a Cherokee nor a Cherokee Chief.

It also claims that she has made up her Indian Band. This seems very puzzling to me about her credibility.

[Yudron]

I googled "Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud" and came across many websites that clearly state that this woman is not a Cherokee nor a Cherokee Chief.

It also claims that she has made up her Indian Band. This seems very puzzling to me about her credibility.

Yes, I am familiar with all that, and I addressed it above.

Anyone can do a google search and find out people's opinions about her, positive and negative... it's easy to access. She's been teaching since at least the early 80's, this is old news. Also, you can also just go to Vermont and see her and talk to her yourself. Why do you want to spend time and effort creating more web pages on the subject? She'll be dead within another 20 years or so.

[ngodrup]

I do not know that she's a "chief" as this word itself is problematical, as I hear from Native Americans I'm acquainted with.
There were elders, but chief seems to be something the Europeans laid on top. She seems to be some sort of elder
or medicine woman. I once knew a Cherokee medicine-woman who had little contact with her people, yet she still
received tradition directly from her living family, ancestors and from the spirits. Nobody questioned it.

As for the word of Their Holiness' Dudjom and Chetsang. That is enough. Some Lamas require little scrutiny before
one knows their quality-- their reputation is impeccable, even if they are a bit eccentric. If Lamas like that
recognize, you can research, but not much is needed.

[Harold]

On Dhyani Ywahoo's website www.sunray.org she states that she is the "Chief of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee".

Yet those websites you find under "Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud" claims that her "Eastern Band of the Cherokee" is totally made up.

[ngodrup]

What does it matter?
"News" on FOX is totally made up too.
I mean, they made up that the President's birth cert was a fraud!
They create stuff to be offended by.
How is this any different?

Native American vision quests are inherently individualistic--
The don't have the same credentialing process as we Buddhists do.
She's obviously Native American. Like my sister-in-law, but her family
is completely disconnected from their people-- so much so she doesn't know
which tribe, yet all her relatives say "yup we're Indian."

What matters is the real Lamas who authenticated her. Bottom line.
Go ask His Holiness Chetsang Rinpoche if you like, or any of the other
major Drikung Lamas who teach at her place. Ignore the people in the
business of making fraud allegations. To them, everybody who doesn't
fit into their narrow pre-packaged version of the bible is a "cult."

[Emanon]

If one is intent on being taught the teachings of the Cherokee lineage, of course the allegations should be cause for concern.
If one is intent on learning from a Khandro, I fail to see how whether she being a Cherokee or otherwise is cause for concern.

Unless you're telling me authentic khandros MUST be of Native American blood, then I apologize for contributing nothing to the discussion

[heart]

If one is intent on being taught the teachings of the Cherokee lineage, of course the allegations should be cause for concern.
If one is intent on learning from a Khandro, I fail to see how whether she being a Cherokee or otherwise is cause for concern.

Unless you're telling me authentic khandros MUST be of Native American blood, then I apologize for contributing nothing to the discussion

good point! I think Harold is just making advertisement for his blog anyway.

/magnus

[Harold]

If one is intent on being taught the teachings of the Cherokee lineage, of course the allegations should be cause for concern.
If one is intent on learning from a Khandro, I fail to see how whether she being a Cherokee or otherwise is cause for concern.

Unless you're telling me authentic khandros MUST be of Native American blood, then I apologize for contributing nothing to the discussion

Are you saying that a person could be a total fraud pretending to be a "Cherokee" Spiritual Master in the morning but some how be an authentic Khandro in the afternoon?

If your right, "then I apologize for contributing nothing to the discussion".

[ngodrup]

If the matter is unresolved, it a very simple matter to ask H. H. Chetsang Rinpoche.
He is generally quite accessible and speaks English fluently. He's in retreat at the moment,
I understand, but there's no rush as Yudron points out this story is some 30 years old.

Now, if you prefer the rumor mongers of the internet's naysayers to genuine Lamas, then
we know where you stand.

[Konchog1]

If one is intent on being taught the teachings of the Cherokee lineage, of course the allegations should be cause for concern.
If one is intent on learning from a Khandro, I fail to see how whether she being a Cherokee or otherwise is cause for concern.

If a lake is poisoned on its left side, would you drink water from its right?

[honestdboy]

"When you throw dirt at people, you're not doing a thing but losing ground." Zig Ziglar (R.I.P.)

[gregkavarnos]

Harold, are you the official investigative reporter for all things Vajrayana in the West? Over the years it's seemed like your research into potential Vajrayana charlatans has been such a full-time preoccupation for you.

[gregkavarnos]

I have time to do both, thank you.

I haven't notice any comments that what I am writing about is untrue or undocumented.

I also have a new article on Lama Tashi Dondup, a Tibetan Lama and whether or not he is a tulku.

[Harold]

What I fear are that people can claim that they are "RINPOCHE'S" simply by saying they have students.

The title of RINPOCHE will have no value because anyone with a few students can now use this title.

People with no background in Tibetan Buddhism will be easily conned by these RINPOCHES or should I say WOLVES IN LAMAS ROBES.

This is happening as we speak.

The Tibetans I feel need to put limits on who and when someone can use this title.