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the great rebirth debate - Page 119 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ben
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Ben » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:58 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Jhana4
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:09 am

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

plwk
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby plwk » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:41 am

I sometimes wonder if the burger I eat is 'real'.... :thinking: :tongue:

FlowerPotMen

Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby FlowerPotMen » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:48 am


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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:46 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:50 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

chownah
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:01 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:14 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

santa100
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby santa100 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:45 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:16 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby ancientbuddhism » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:30 pm

Hi kirk5a, Alex123 et al,

I really don’t know what to say at this point to you or others who choose to respond with specious arguments with the agnostic premise to what is a direct question of what are practicable essentials?.These responses are so disconnected from in its context that a this/that reply is not possible without further digression. As unfortunate as this seems, it really does not matter; such are the conditions which give rise to self and views.

For those who can understand, I have no quarrel with what is in the early texts, or anyone else, which give voice to the life-to-life rebirth myth. I am fortunate, quite by accident perhaps, that my Ajahns gave me rather simple contemplative instruction ‘kesā lomā nakhā dantā taco…’ which are easy enough to understand and put into practice, and otherwise I am simply content to also practice any tenets of Dhamma which endow the results of contemplative endeavor, readily evident; just as others may choose contemplative ‘Traditions’ – whether they be LP Teean, Mahāsi, Goenka, khun Sujin, Wat Phra Dhammakāya or the TFT – teachers who can be just as radical if not more so with their arbitrary selection what part of the 8-fold Path is practicable – as any natural agnostic.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


chownah
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:36 pm


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Alex123
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:42 pm

Hello Ancientbuddhism,

Of course one may believe what one wants. What I don't approve of is the projecting of one's beliefs onto the Suttas.
One of the ways that one projects one's beliefs or doubts is to interpret clear message in such a way to mean what one wants it to mean that it affirms one's beliefs.


"Myth of rebirth in the early texts notwithstanding – do the teachings of the Buddha stand or fail based on whether one believes in what cannot be reached by living experience? With the myth of rebirth aside I do not see a mere system of ethics, mere petty morality, but a way of living with an analysis of experience which can be put into practice with evident progression." viewtopic.php?p=142808&sid=66c5e31c757463aa7bc369629d3540fc#p142808

How do you know that rebirth is a myth? Why not Nibbāna being a myth? Have you personally seen it? Have you seen an Arahant?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:43 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby daverupa » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:45 pm

Last edited by daverupa on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:50 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:57 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:05 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:09 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

santa100
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby santa100 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Daverupa wrote:
MN 117 wrote:
"And what is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The discernment, the faculty of discernment, the strength of discernment, analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, the path factor of right view of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is free from effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path"

Thank you for the ref. for it definitely clarifies the huge contrast between a noble mind, one that "is free from effluents and fully possessed of the noble path" versus one that flatly rejects rebirth and other world.


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