Oracles and taking trance...

[Steveyboy]

This teaching just appeared on Tsem Rinpoche's blog and I thought that it is rather interesting and I wanted to share it here. I personally don't have much of an experience with oracles although I know people who do and who swear by them. What do you guys think about this? Dharma Protectors are these wrathful guardians that we propitiate from time to clear obstacles. Imagine such beings with all their fire and magic, enter into an oracle? Anyway, here's a little something that Tsem Rinpoche wrote at the beginning along with the video recording of the teaching he gave.



Dear friends,

Work of clearing the land at Kechara Forest Retreat (KFR) has started. The big tractors and other equipment have been at work since October 3rd, 2012. I went to take a look at the progress so far and it was totally exciting. The land looks bigger and longer after clearing of many undergrowths. I did a land blessing and land deity puja while I was there and also gave a talk. The talk was about people taking trances of various supernatural beings. The supernatural beings include benevolent spirits, devas, mountain gods, land gods, negative entities and superior Dharma protectors. I explained who takes trance, the procedure and what is required and what we should be careful of. I also explain the pitfalls and also why trances happen and to who. I explained about trances within the Tibetan tradition in more detail. I went into somewhat of a detail on the preparation required. As it grew dark we moved inside to continue the talk on our land. We have containers on our land. So we can stay overnight if necessary. I gave this talk on trance because I have been asked many questions on this subject for many years and decided to share some information I have learned from my teachers and observation. I hope this will benefit very much.

Taking trance is nothing new and not just in the east. In the West (Greece) the Delphi Oracle was famous for it’s accurate prophecies of the future. Leaders and famous people like Alexander the Great had consulted the Delphi Oracle regarding his conquests and movements. Famous Shamans, Medicine Men/Woman/Priests of South America, North America, Alaska, Siberia, Mongolia, Malaysia, Borneo, Europe and many in Africa up till today can channel or take trance of supernatural beings to help, bless or assist others in their lives. It is still commonly practiced. Some would call it real, some would call it a case of multiple personality or psychosis. I guess the truth is in the outcome. Some are real and some are psychosis.

Please do watch the video to learn more of trances and remember, the best ‘thing’ to enter you is compassion.

My good luck to everyone and good wishes,

Tsem Rinpoche

[Indrajala]

Mediums seem to exist in most historical cultures. In some cases they have status, in others they have to go underground.

It is a worldly practice, but perhaps quite useful. I imagine, though, the danger is in dealing with malicious or deceptive spirits.

[ngodrup]

Oracles are only one aspect of the activity of protectors in Tibetan Buddhism.
There are peaceful, blissful and wrathful protectors. Some a 'nature gods' who
are under vow to protect Dharma, and help practitioners; others are Bodhisattvas
or Buddhas. Some are historical figures who have a protective, healing, or obstacle
removing role-- King Gesar of Ling would be an example of a historical figure.

Some of these beings work through trance mediums, others work through
various divination methods. Sometimes the activity is very swift and obvious
other times subtle. All lineages have protectors associated with them, so any
Tibetan Buddhist practitioner has some relationship with protectors, especially
the context of tantra.

[Steveyboy]

Mediums seem to exist in most historical cultures. In some cases they have status, in others they have to go underground.

It is a worldly practice, but perhaps quite useful. I imagine, though, the danger is in dealing with malicious or deceptive spirits.

Well, in Tibetan tradition, there are deities that are invoked to enter an oracle is a an enlightened being like Setrap. Well, Rinpoche did explain that the Lamas perform a special ritual called Tsakor, which opens the chakras for higher divinities and blocks lower beings from entering. Hence, oracles are tested rigorously in the manner explained by Rinpoche in the video. I think this is particularly very helpful if the tradition is perpetuated because it helps us to answer questions of the future that helps to save a lot time from making the wrong decisions. For many, it helps people to gain faith that the Dharma Protector exists and with it, the whole pantheon of Buddhas definitely do exists. It helps us to gain relief from our problems and difficulties by gaining divine advice from the Dharma Protector.

[plwk]

I have a Q though... would you happen to know if Je Tsongkhapa himself allowed this practice to carry on in his lineage? If so, what are the justifications and in which text?

[ngodrup]

What's unclear? Je Tsongkahpa used a medium to communicate with Manjushri.
He allowed it because it works and was helpful for him, it would be helpful for others.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

I thought in the sadhanas Je Tsongkapa was considered a direct nirmanakaya of Manjushiri.

E.g.:

MIG-ME TSE-WAY TER-CHEN CHEN-RE-ZIG
DRI-ME KYEN-PAI WANG-PO JAM-PEL YANG
DUE-PUNG MA-LUE JOM-ZE SANG-WAY DAK
GANG-CHEN KHE-PAI TSUK-GYEN TSONG-KHA-PA
LOB-SANG DRAK-PAI SHAB-LA SOL-WA DEB

You are Avalokitshvara – a great treasure of unaimed affection,
Manjushri – a commander of flawless wisdom,
Vajrapani – a destroyer of all hordes of demonic forces,
Tsongkhapa – the crown jewel of the erudite masters of the Land of Snows,
At your feet, Losang-dragpa, we make you requests.

Or:

O pervading Lord Manjushri-vajra, the Opponent of Yama,
O Lama Je Tsongkhapa, the Father who embodies all Conquerors,
And your Sons together with the lamas of the lineage,
Please bestow the two kinds of siddhi.

Etc.

[asunthatneversets]

Interesting documentary on the Dalai Lama's oracles...

[Yudron]

Cool video, asunthatneversets. Unfortunately, I didn't notice til the end it was put up on Youtube by a Shugden person, with links to their site.

You probably didn't notice that.

[zangskar]

Very interesting video indeed.
Here's a full version (not in parts) and not from the controversial user.

Best wishes
Lars

[catmoon]

2 cents worth....

It amazes me that anybody gives any of this any credence at all.

[ngodrup]

Catmoon.

Why should one doubt?
Faith and doubt are both individual phenomena.
Those who practice eventually encounter some strange
thing that doesn't fit into one's a priori paradigm. Why
should we then assume that our culturally conditioned
rationale is the true one, any more than assume that
Tibetan cultural rationale is the true one? If the sources
are credible, or we see things with our own eyes that contradict
then we have a variety of pramana approaches to ascertain
valid cognition for things outside of our gross, heavy, materialist
habit. If we don't believe in intangible wisdom phenomena,
or various in-between phenomena, what hope is there for
transformation? At least we can entertain the possibility that
such "strange phenomena" might be real in some sense.

[Nighthawk]

2 cents worth....

It amazes me that anybody gives any of this any credence at all.

How can you be so sure?

[heart]

2 cents worth....

It amazes me that anybody gives any of this any credence at all.

I been to a oracle session in India once. I thought it was going to be completely ridiculous, but it was quite powerful and even a little scary. The answers provided were amazing. The oracle, an old woman, was very strange and kind and didn't have a clue what she had said during the session afterwards. In fact the monk helping her completely ignored her ideas when they listened to the tape of the session to find out the unclear parts. There might of course be quite of number of charlatans that do this, so it is a good idea to be careful.

/magnus

[username]

In the presence of the glorious Dalai Lama & magnificent Karmapa: Khandro La Tseringma, Nechung, and Gadong, State Oracles of Tibet:


Khandro La: teaching on Wisdom and Compassion:


Khandro La: Calling the Lama from Afar prayer:


Lama Zopa Rinpoche's visit to Maratika Cave with Khandro la:


Khandro La's biographical interview, in PDF format:
http://www.mandalamagazine.org/wp-conte ... Dakini.pdf

[Caz]

2 cents worth....

It amazes me that anybody gives any of this any credence at all.

I know some people who regularly get to see a certain Oracle whom has always been highly regarded, When one person asked for advise many years previously to a different oracle but of the same deity and asked again the same question many years later the Deity replied the exact same thing that they had spoke of many years previously and made apparent that they should fulfil this advise. Seeing it up close and personal and testing authentic Oracles is very moving indeed.

[JKhedrup]

I love His Holiness!
At many points during the trance ceremony he seems more interested in reading his book than all the fanfare!

[asunthatneversets]

Cool video, asunthatneversets. Unfortunately, I didn't notice til the end it was put up on Youtube by a Shugden person, with links to their site.

You probably didn't notice that.

Ah didn't see that! Otherwise yes I would've found a different link, interesting though, I'm curious as to what the motivation would be behind an organization/individual in support of that cause essentially sponsoring/promoting this video. I'll leave the extent of my prying with that question though and let that sleeping dog lie. Lie in both senses of the word.

[Steveyboy]

I have a Q though... would you happen to know if Je Tsongkhapa himself allowed this practice to carry on in his lineage? If so, what are the justifications and in which text?

ma Tsongkhapa doesn't need to approve of it as the practice came from Guru Rinpoche and Lama Tsongkhapa approves and respects Guru Rinpoche very much. On the other hand, the Dalai Lama encourages this practice and consults Nechung on state matters always. As you can see through the various videos the other people have posted here. It is an authentic practice and approved by the Dalai Lama and many other High Lamas.