Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:56 am

muni wrote:Samsara is ideation, dream, sleep. Nirvana is an idea, an aim "one must reach". An awakened one is not caught in ideation.

Only awakened ones can awaken beings. One in samsara cannot help beings out of samsara. Awakened ones can appear very ordinary to sentient beings' eyes.

:namaste:


That's true in several ways. The Buddha may have appeared ordinary. Bodhisattvas appear in ordinary ways although they are representations of buddhanature. Even arhats appear ordinary. It's taught that ignorant beings cannot help ignorant beings. However, I wouldn't say that only awakened ones can awaken beings--Buddhas don't awaken beings, they teach them to awaken themselves. Even pratekyabuddhas have no help or teaching from Buddhas, and yet they emancipate themselves...
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:46 am

Samsara and nibbana are just a name for someone who still see intrinsic value in appearances and someone who no longer see intrinsic in appearances.

If you still see intrinsic value in appearance, your life will be divided into good, bad, neutral. Because you have have these 3 things, your life will sometime happy, sometime sad, sometimes just ok. This is samsaric life.

But if you no longer see any intrinsic value in appearances, everything you see is just diversity of appearances without any good bad or neutral. Because of this there is a stability here unshakeable by any possible magnets. In this case, you reach nibbana.

Samsara and nibbana are not differentiated by places and this meaty body.

Because for anyone who can see nibbana, at preset money they will not see mind and body. Other people will see he has a body. But that nibbana person will not see he has body. Even his mind he won't see that. This is because he doesn't see any intrinsic or inherent anymore in all conditions without any exceptions. He doesn't see hi mind, his body, whether he is meditating, whether he is working, whether he is sleeping, whether he is still in the womb, whether he is still a baby, whether he is in hospital, whether he is in his death bed.

Samsara and nirvana is one. It is just one coin with 2 sides. If you don't see any intrinsic value in this appearances you see nibbana. Nothing can shake your peacefulness because there is nothing good, bad, or neutral that can throw you upside down. But, if due to some reasons, your old habit comes or you have doubt about it, then samsaric life begin, because at that instant you see intrinsic or inherent thing, that make you vulnerable to the roller coaster of good, bad, and neutral.

Do you see any difference between the reflection on the water of white round moon and red triangle star?

In terms of appearances alone, they are different.

But in terms of nature alone, they are same, which is unfindable, having no intrinsic value, having no substance, doesn't have any realness, the nature is completely illusory.

When you are able to see the non intrinsic of appearance, you will see all these appearances as just "dry" appearances. It really cut the good, bad, and neutral in whatever projection you previously make. Absolutely "dry".

In this illusory nature, you will come to understand these two:
1. Does it exist?
This is not a valid question, because asking something without inherent existence as existence or not, is like asking a question to a barren woman, how many children do you have.

2. Does it not exist?
This is also not a valid question, because asking someone not exist means you don't see the illusory dances of non inherent appearances. This questions like does the reflection of the moon on the water has no reflection?

When the enlightened boddhisattva reborn himself, for us he is reborn, but for him that is not reborn, tht is also not no reborn.

For us, he is like going down to samsara again, but for him, he is not going to samsara, nor nirvana.

It is just like that - going nowhere.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:27 am

DarwidHalim wrote:Samsara and nibbana are just a name for someone who still see intrinsic value in appearances and someone who no longer see intrinsic in appearances.

If you still see intrinsic value in appearance, your life will be divided into good, bad, neutral. Because you have have these 3 things, your life will sometime happy, sometime sad, sometimes just ok. This is samsaric life.

Yes, all human beings are this way. We exist in samsara. That's why the Buddha taught the fourfold noble truth.

But if you no longer see any intrinsic value in appearances, everything you see is just diversity of appearances without any good bad or neutral. Because of this there is a stability here unshakeable by any possible magnets. In this case, you reach nibbana.

You make it sound very easy an ordinary, but it is very deep and subtle.

Samsara and nibbana are not differentiated by places and this meaty body.

Because for anyone who can see nibbana, at preset money they will not see mind and body. Other people will see he has a body. But that nibbana person will not see he has body. Even his mind he won't see that. This is because he doesn't see any intrinsic or inherent anymore in all conditions without any exceptions. He doesn't see hi mind, his body, whether he is meditating, whether he is working, whether he is sleeping, whether he is still in the womb, whether he is still a baby, whether he is in hospital, whether he is in his death bed.

Babies are clearly not experiencing nibbana. They are being born with clinging as their condition, which in turn arose with craving as its condition. :shrug: According to Buddha. Arhats do sense and perceive their mind and body. They simply have no clinging toward it, or anything.

Samsara and nirvana is one. It is just one coin with 2 sides. If you don't see any intrinsic value in this appearances you see nibbana. Nothing can shake your peacefulness because there is nothing good, bad, or neutral that can throw you upside down. But, if due to some reasons, your old habit comes or you have doubt about it, then samsaric life begin, because at that instant you see intrinsic or inherent thing, that make you vulnerable to the roller coaster of good, bad, and neutral.

What you say is based on truth, but it seems flawed. At the point where one has realized nibbana, there is no possibility of falling into the habit of samsara. It is the end of samsara, that's exactly what it means. It's not temporary--SAMSARA is by definition temporary, and nibbana is by definition not temporary. Nirvanic consciousness is pure, endless, and luminous all around, it is not limited by "habit" and "the temporary."

But in terms of nature alone, they are same, which is unfindable, having no intrinsic value, having no substance, doesn't have any realness, the nature is completely illusory.

= emptiness.

When you are able to see the non intrinsic of appearance, you will see all these appearances as just "dry" appearances. It really cut the good, bad, and neutral in whatever projection you previously make. Absolutely "dry".

In this illusory nature, you will come to understand these two:
1. Does it exist?
This is not a valid question, because asking something without inherent existence as existence or not, is like asking a question to a barren woman, how many children do you have.

2. Does it not exist?
This is also not a valid question, because asking someone not exist means you don't see the illusory dances of non inherent appearances. This questions like does the reflection of the moon on the water has no reflection?

Yes, the Buddha did explain this in discussions with his disciples.

When the enlightened boddhisattva reborn himself, for us he is reborn, but for him that is not reborn, tht is also not no reborn.

Enlightenment here doesn't seem to be referring to the nibbana element.

For us, he is like going down to samsara again, but for him, he is not going to samsara, nor nirvana.

I'm very familiar with this idea, as many Buddhists feel this way. It's okay to say that he isn't experiencing samsara or nibbana. The view is explained well. On the other hand, the Buddha explained that the experience of nibbana is like an extinguished flame. When a baby is born it is not experiencing nibbana, it is subject to craving, clinging, and thus birth.

Nibbana does not mean "the understanding of samsara," it means, "the complete end of samsara."
Buddhists always defer to the "coin metaphor" to make the notion of reincarnating buddhas seem simple and straightforward, and I'm not arguing against it at all. What's true is true.

But the supreme teacher explained that nibbana is the one and only absolute END of samsara altogether. There are two elements: with the remainder of life, and without remainder (parinirvana). There is no third coin-like element where nibanna can "carry on" to a consequent life.

Suffice to say, some people become enlightened so to speak and become very intimate with nibbana (this is clear from the very start of the teaching), and upon that enlightenment they choose to remain in the "continuous flow," which is samsara. Therefore they do not experience nibbana for themselves. Thoughts?
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:09 am

You have this idea, because you try to understand nibbana by reading the book.

The taste of orange cannot be understood by reading. In the same way, nibbana cannot be understood by reading as well.

You need to ever experience the nondual state in extreme condition, then you will have a glimpse there, why someone who can see appearances as just appearances cannot be affected by anything.

Sotapana, have a glimpse of emptiness of self in experience level. That is why he is called Sotapana. But, why he still needs maximum 7 life time before he reaches arhat?

Seeing 1 time doesn't mean from that point onwards you can absolutely free from duality. When your bad habit is being so strong, so deep, and so long, it doesn't mean just 1 time seeing, you can be absolutely free.

If you have a long believe like 60 years of believe that shaking hand with HIV patient can transfer the HIV, and then suddenly all doctors said that based on proven evident shaking hand with HIV will not transfer HIV. Do you think after you know that fact, the next day you can shake hand without any doubt or worry? Do you think you can voluntarily shake hand with all HIV patients one by one in the next week?

Seeing is one thing. But, free from doubt about it is not easy.
Cleaning your bowl from dirt is easy. But cleaning your bowl from smell is not easy.

Sotapana needs maximum 7 life time. He has a glimpse, but because his glimpse or seeing is still very very weak, there are still traces of ignorant that cannot be eradicated. He just needs more time.

It is very very rare for someone who see the nonduality and at that instant onwards, he is absolutely free. Very very rare.

Even in Zen school, one of the teacher say that the glimpse of seeing this reality nakedly is instantly, immediate, but whether you can maintain it or not, whether you can bee free from any doubt, that is a second issue.

Regarding, a baby. Not all baby suffer in the worm. One example is SIddarta Gautama in the womb. Her mother can be at peace. Once siddharta was born, he can walk a few steps and with his up pointing upwards he can talk.

Another example is Kamalasila (Bodhidharma). He was born not from sexual intercourse. So, when his mother realize she was pregnant, she drank a poison tried to kill the baby, but that work is futile. His mother experienced many samadhis during that time. Immediately, after he was born, he said this:

"Mother, are you well?"

He then said this:

Beyond speech, thought, expression, wisdom gone beyond,
Unborn unceasing, with a nature like space,
Discerning, transcendent wisdom's sphere of awareness,
Homage to the Mother of the three times' Buddhas!

------------

Nibbana has nothing to do with death. It has nothing to do with born.

Because there is no death and no born.

Now, do someone ever born? If yes, that is what you think. That is what you are projecting, like you are projecting there is moon the reflection of moon.

But, in reality, no one ever born, because there is never ever a substance or inherent thing jump out or born from the womb.

Regardless you are enlighten or not, you are actually never born and never die.

So, saying someone does rebirth or reincarnate is just a name only. In reality no one ever reincarnate.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:10 am

DarwidHalim wrote:You have this idea, because you try to understand nibbana by reading the book.

No...

Why would you assume that?

The taste of orange cannot be understood by reading. In the same way, nibbana cannot be understood by reading as well.

You need to ever experience the nondual state in extreme condition, then you will have a glimpse there, why someone who can see appearances as just appearances cannot be affected by anything.


Fortunately, as a result of my dedicated practice, I have experienced this.

Sotapana, have a glimpse of emptiness of self in experience level. That is why he is called Sotapana. But, why he still needs maximum 7 life time before he reaches arhat?

Seeing 1 time doesn't mean from that point onwards you can absolutely free from duality. When your bad habit is being so strong, so deep, and so long, it doesn't mean just 1 time seeing, you can be absolutely free.

Yes, this is true because sotapannahood is only the first stage of the path. The remaining seven remaining fetters must be eliminated before NIBBANA is achieved.

If you have a long believe like 60 years of believe that shaking hand with HIV patient can transfer the HIV, and then suddenly all doctors said that based on proven evident shaking hand with HIV will not transfer HIV. Do you think after you know that fact, the next day you can shake hand without any doubt or worry? Do you think you can voluntarily shake hand with all HIV patients one by one in the next week?

Seeing is one thing. But, free from doubt about it is not easy.
Cleaning your bowl from dirt is easy. But cleaning your bowl from smell is not easy.

Sotapana needs maximum 7 life time. He has a glimpse, but because his glimpse or seeing is still very very weak, there are still traces of ignorant that cannot be eradicated. He just needs more time.

It is very very rare for someone who see the nonduality and at that instant onwards, he is absolutely free. Very very rare.


... ... ... ... ...

Even in Zen school, one of the teacher say that the glimpse of seeing this reality nakedly is instantly, immediate, but whether you can maintain it or not, whether you can bee free from any doubt, that is a second issue.

Yes, I am a Zennist.

Regarding, a baby. Not all baby suffer in the worm. One example is SIddarta Gautama in the womb. Her mother can be at peace. Once siddharta was born, he can walk a few steps and with his up pointing upwards he can talk.

Yes. And he had not achieved nibbana either.

Another example is Kamalasila (Bodhidharma). He was born not from sexual intercourse. So, when his mother realize she was pregnant, she drank a poison tried to kill the baby, but that work is futile. His mother experienced many samadhis during that time. Immediately, after he was born, he said this:

"Mother, are you well?"

He then said this:

Beyond speech, thought, expression, wisdom gone beyond,
Unborn unceasing, with a nature like space,
Discerning, transcendent wisdom's sphere of awareness,
Homage to the Mother of the three times' Buddhas!


That's very insightful, and I'm sure that like Christ he was utmostly enlightened in that moment.

------------

Nibbana has nothing to do with death. It has nothing to do with born.

Because there is no death and no born.


That's completely true.

Now, do someone ever born? If yes, that is what you think. That is what you are projecting, like you are projecting there is moon the reflection of moon.

But, in reality, no one ever born, because there is never ever a substance or inherent thing jump out or born from the womb.

Regardless you are enlighten or not, you are actually never born and never die.

So, saying someone does rebirth or reincarnate is just a name only. In reality no one ever reincarnate.


Yes, it's called conventionality; the use of conventional terms for the sake of teaching, and learning... ... ... And in the conventional sense, nibbana is the end of birth and death. This is the teaching. Circling back to the topic.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:15 am

DarwidHalim wrote:You have this idea, because you try to understand nibbana by reading the book.

No...

Why would you assume that?

The taste of orange cannot be understood by reading. In the same way, nibbana cannot be understood by reading as well.

You need to ever experience the nondual state in extreme condition, then you will have a glimpse there, why someone who can see appearances as just appearances cannot be affected by anything.


Fortunately, as a result of my dedicated practice, I have experienced this.

Sotapana, have a glimpse of emptiness of self in experience level. That is why he is called Sotapana. But, why he still needs maximum 7 life time before he reaches arhat?

Seeing 1 time doesn't mean from that point onwards you can absolutely free from duality. When your bad habit is being so strong, so deep, and so long, it doesn't mean just 1 time seeing, you can be absolutely free.

Yes, this is true because sotapannahood is only the first stage of the path. The remaining seven remaining fetters must be eliminated before NIBBANA is achieved.

If you have a long believe like 60 years of believe that shaking hand with HIV patient can transfer the HIV, and then suddenly all doctors said that based on proven evident shaking hand with HIV will not transfer HIV. Do you think after you know that fact, the next day you can shake hand without any doubt or worry? Do you think you can voluntarily shake hand with all HIV patients one by one in the next week?

Seeing is one thing. But, free from doubt about it is not easy.
Cleaning your bowl from dirt is easy. But cleaning your bowl from smell is not easy.

Sotapana needs maximum 7 life time. He has a glimpse, but because his glimpse or seeing is still very very weak, there are still traces of ignorant that cannot be eradicated. He just needs more time.

It is very very rare for someone who see the nonduality and at that instant onwards, he is absolutely free. Very very rare.


... ... ... ... ...

Even in Zen school, one of the teacher say that the glimpse of seeing this reality nakedly is instantly, immediate, but whether you can maintain it or not, whether you can bee free from any doubt, that is a second issue.

Yes, I am a Zennist.

Regarding, a baby. Not all baby suffer in the worm. One example is SIddarta Gautama in the womb. Her mother can be at peace. Once siddharta was born, he can walk a few steps and with his up pointing upwards he can talk.

Yes. And he had not achieved nibbana either.

Another example is Kamalasila (Bodhidharma). He was born not from sexual intercourse. So, when his mother realize she was pregnant, she drank a poison tried to kill the baby, but that work is futile. His mother experienced many samadhis during that time. Immediately, after he was born, he said this:

"Mother, are you well?"

He then said this:

Beyond speech, thought, expression, wisdom gone beyond,
Unborn unceasing, with a nature like space,
Discerning, transcendent wisdom's sphere of awareness,
Homage to the Mother of the three times' Buddhas!


That's very insightful, and I'm sure that like Christ he was utmostly enlightened in that moment.

------------

Nibbana has nothing to do with death. It has nothing to do with born.

Because there is no death and no born.


That's completely true. That is samsara and that's why nibbana is conventionally distinguished from samsara. And the Buddha was clear in that it is impossible to effectively describe nibbana with words or meanings. Because it is entirely devoid of samsara. Ignorance, suffering, and existence are absent in nibbana. This especially includes clinging, becoming, and birth.

Now, do someone ever born? If yes, that is what you think. That is what you are projecting, like you are projecting there is moon the reflection of moon.

But, in reality, no one ever born, because there is never ever a substance or inherent thing jump out or born from the womb.

Regardless you are enlighten or not, you are actually never born and never die.

So, saying someone does rebirth or reincarnate is just a name only. In reality no one ever reincarnate.


Yes, it's called conventionality; the use of conventional terms for the sake of teaching, and learning... ... ... And in the conventional sense, nibbana is the end of birth and death. This is the teaching. Circling back to the topic.
Last edited by Son on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:15 am

Son wrote:
Regarding, a baby. Not all baby suffer in the worm. One example is SIddarta Gautama in the womb. Her mother can be at peace. Once siddharta was born, he can walk a few steps and with his up pointing upwards he can talk.

Yes. And he had not achieved nibbana either.


THis is a circling topic, I think because we have the issue here.

If I ask you about Maitreya. He is teaching now in Tushita Heaven. He is the teacher of Asanga and the teacher of Tushita residents. His student, Asanga, is enlightened.

Now, is the teacher, Maitreya, currently already enlightened or not?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:23 am

DarwidHalim wrote:
Son wrote:
Regarding, a baby. Not all baby suffer in the worm. One example is SIddarta Gautama in the womb. Her mother can be at peace. Once siddharta was born, he can walk a few steps and with his up pointing upwards he can talk.

Yes. And he had not achieved nibbana either.


THis is a circling topic, I think because we have the issue here.

If I ask you about Maitreya. He is teaching now in Tushita Heaven. He is the teacher of Asanga and the teacher of Tushita residents. His student, Asanga, is enlightened.

Now, is the teacher, Maitreya, currently already enlightened or not?


It depends on what you mean by enlightened. But in the casual sense, yes. He is prepared for supreme Buddhahood. But he has not achieved Buddhahood, is not an arhat, and hasn't achieved nibbana. This is known in the tradition of the teachings.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:41 am

OK, whether he has fully realized emptiness of phenomena or not, that is secondary.

But, without any dispute, he is no longer subjected to reborn, because he has fully realize the emptiness of self.

In the future, when he will come to earth, that is not done like how the god fall into lower realm.

FOr god beings, they fall to lower realm because it is already their karma, so they have no choice.

But, someone who is already realize emptiness of self is no longer subjected to reborn like how we human do.

So, are you saying that in the future, when Maitreya come to earth from Tushita in the mother womb is because his karmic in Tushita end, so he has no choice has to born like how human get reborn to animal realm?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:50 am

DarwidHalim wrote:OK, whether he has fully realized emptiness of phenomena or not, that is secondary.

But, without any dispute, he is no longer subjected to reborn, because he has fully realize the emptiness of self.

That sounds opinionated, or at most overly-simplified. But I digress.

In the future, when he will come to earth, that is not done like how the god fall into lower realm.

Right, he will descend with full consciousness into the human womb...

FOr god beings, they fall to lower realm because it is already their karma, so they have no choice.

But, someone who is already realize emptiness of self is no longer subjected to reborn like how we human do.

That's true. But there is no sort of rebirth whatsoever "in nibbana," which is the cessation of birth.

So, are you saying that in the future, when Maitreya come to earth from Tushita in the mother womb is because his karmic in Tushita end, so he has no choice has to born like how human get reborn to animal realm?

He is supposed to decide, at the opportune moment and when the circumstances are favorable, to descend into his human birth. So it is voluntary, unlike most gods who simply live on their sustaining karma until they die. Then, during that life, he will achieve nibbana according to his long-term spiritual goal as a holy bodhisattva.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:53 am

Son wrote:He is supposed to decide, at the opportune moment and when the circumstances are favorable, to descend into his human birth. So it is voluntary, unlike most gods who simply live on their sustaining karma until they die. .....


So, now you get your own answer for this topic "Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate".
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:01 am

DarwidHalim wrote:
Son wrote:He is supposed to decide, at the opportune moment and when the circumstances are favorable, to descend into his human birth. So it is voluntary, unlike most gods who simply live on their sustaining karma until they die. .....


So, now you get your own answer for this topic "Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate".


Yes, thank you.
I was satisfied once we reached this post:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=8462#p103032

However I wanted to respond to some other words in the topic, for the sake of others.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:10 am

There is actually a sutta in Pali Canon, that tell when Maitreya born in human realm, he will get married, and he will have a son.

This pattern is exactly similar with Siddharta Gautama.

And in that sutta, it mentions that, before Siddharta, the previous buddha was also like that.

This pattern is unique and it is a rule.

I can't remember what sutta is that. I ever post about that sutta actually here.

When Boddhisattva choose to reborn himself, this is very different with how human get reborn here or there without their control.

Buddha doesn't extinct.

So, he is still there free from any rebirth.

It is then up to his choice then where he wants to go depending on him.

There is this notion in Pali canon the extinction of flame in the candle. This statement is misunderstood as completely extinct. But, actually what it means by the extinction is the extinction of inherent existence. It is this alient concept that is completely extinct, but not the appearance of buddha (trikaya) itself that extinct.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:15 am

DarwidHalim wrote:So, he is still there free from any rebirth.

It is then up to his choice then where he wants to go depending on him.


That's an interesting thought. But without intentions or inclinations, he certainly doesn't have the means to be reborn. And with innumerable other beings working to become Supreme Buddhas, he has no need.
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:22 am

Indeed it is not something compulsory. It is up to him. It is a choice for him.

Btw, when someone fully realize no birth and no death, when he goes to hospital and see a baby coming out from the womb, to him that is not birth.

Similarly, when he see someone dead, that is also not death.

We need to put our position here as someone who can see ghost.

Someone has this notion of death, because he no longer has the ability to see that person. So, to him, that person is dead.

But, if you are able to see his ghost, then you will not see death in him.

When that ghost get birth, you will also not see birth at him.

So, although enlightened being is said to get reincarnate, actually he never reincarnate, because there is no such thing called death in the first place.

Just move from third floor to first floor. Yes, we name that event as reincarnate, but in reality that is not reincarnation anyway. Because he never dies and never birth at all time. Just move from third floor to first floor.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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DarwidHalim
 
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Re: Enlightened Beings Choosing to Reincarnate

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:27 am

DarwidHalim wrote:Indeed it is not something compulsory. It is up to him. It is a choice for him.

Btw, when someone fully realize no birth and no death, when he goes to hospital and see a baby coming out from the womb, to him that is not birth.

Similarly, when he see someone dead, that is also not death.

We need to put our position here as someone who can see ghost.

Someone has this notion of death, because he no longer has the ability to see that person. So, to him, that person is dead.

But, if you are able to see his ghost, then you will not see death in him.

When that ghost get birth, you will also not see birth at him.

So, although enlightened being is said to get reincarnate, actually he never reincarnate, because there is no such thing called death in the first place.

Just move from third floor to first floor. Yes, we name that event as reincarnate, but in reality that is not reincarnation anyway. Because he never dies and never birth at all time. Just move from third floor to first floor.


Yes you've explained this.
That is one view.
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Son
 
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