DarwidHalim wrote:Samsara and nibbana are just a name for someone who still see intrinsic value in appearances and someone who no longer see intrinsic in appearances.
If you still see intrinsic value in appearance, your life will be divided into good, bad, neutral. Because you have have these 3 things, your life will sometime happy, sometime sad, sometimes just ok. This is samsaric life.
Yes, all human beings are this way. We exist in samsara. That's why the Buddha taught the fourfold noble truth.
But if you no longer see any intrinsic value in appearances, everything you see is just diversity of appearances without any good bad or neutral. Because of this there is a stability here unshakeable by any possible magnets. In this case, you reach nibbana.
You make it sound very easy an ordinary, but it is very deep and subtle.
Samsara and nibbana are not differentiated by places and this meaty body.
Because for anyone who can see nibbana, at preset money they will not see mind and body. Other people will see he has a body. But that nibbana person will not see he has body. Even his mind he won't see that. This is because he doesn't see any intrinsic or inherent anymore in all conditions without any exceptions. He doesn't see hi mind, his body, whether he is meditating, whether he is working, whether he is sleeping, whether he is still in the womb, whether he is still a baby, whether he is in hospital, whether he is in his death bed.
Babies are clearly not experiencing nibbana. They are being born with clinging as their condition, which in turn arose with craving as its condition.
According to Buddha. Arhats do sense and perceive their mind and body. They simply have no clinging toward it, or anything.
Samsara and nirvana is one. It is just one coin with 2 sides. If you don't see any intrinsic value in this appearances you see nibbana. Nothing can shake your peacefulness because there is nothing good, bad, or neutral that can throw you upside down. But, if due to some reasons, your old habit comes or you have doubt about it, then samsaric life begin, because at that instant you see intrinsic or inherent thing, that make you vulnerable to the roller coaster of good, bad, and neutral.
What you say is based on truth, but it seems flawed. At the point where one has
realized nibbana, there is no possibility of falling into the habit of samsara. It is the end of samsara, that's exactly what it means. It's not temporary--SAMSARA is by definition temporary, and nibbana is by definition not temporary. Nirvanic consciousness is pure, endless, and luminous all around, it is not limited by "habit" and "the temporary."
But in terms of nature alone, they are same, which is unfindable, having no intrinsic value, having no substance, doesn't have any realness, the nature is completely illusory.
= emptiness.
When you are able to see the non intrinsic of appearance, you will see all these appearances as just "dry" appearances. It really cut the good, bad, and neutral in whatever projection you previously make. Absolutely "dry".
In this illusory nature, you will come to understand these two:
1. Does it exist?
This is not a valid question, because asking something without inherent existence as existence or not, is like asking a question to a barren woman, how many children do you have.
2. Does it not exist?
This is also not a valid question, because asking someone not exist means you don't see the illusory dances of non inherent appearances. This questions like does the reflection of the moon on the water has no reflection?
Yes, the Buddha did explain this in discussions with his disciples.
When the enlightened boddhisattva reborn himself, for us he is reborn, but for him that is not reborn, tht is also not no reborn.
Enlightenment here doesn't seem to be referring to the nibbana element.
For us, he is like going down to samsara again, but for him, he is not going to samsara, nor nirvana.
I'm very familiar with this idea, as many Buddhists feel this way. It's okay to say that he isn't experiencing samsara or nibbana. The view is explained well. On the other hand, the Buddha explained that the experience of nibbana is like an extinguished flame. When a baby is born it is not experiencing nibbana, it is subject to craving, clinging, and thus birth.
Nibbana does not mean "the understanding of samsara," it means, "the complete end of samsara."
Buddhists always defer to the "coin metaphor" to make the notion of reincarnating buddhas seem simple and straightforward, and I'm not arguing against it at all. What's true is true.
But the supreme teacher explained that nibbana is the one and only absolute END of samsara altogether. There are two elements: with the remainder of life, and without remainder (parinirvana). There is no third coin-like element where nibanna can "carry on" to a consequent life.
Suffice to say, some people become enlightened so to speak and become very intimate with nibbana (this is clear from the very start of the teaching), and upon that enlightenment they choose to remain in the "continuous flow," which is samsara. Therefore they do not experience nibbana for themselves. Thoughts?
