Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

General forum on Mahayana.

Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby Aemilius » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:33 am

I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
svaha
User avatar
Aemilius
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby LastLegend » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:58 am

Aemilius wrote:I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter



How they know that it is unseen?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby AlexanderS » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:03 am

Aemilius wrote:I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter


I think unless, we were top psychists that would just be baseless speculation. It's a cool idea though.
AlexanderS
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby catmoon » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:50 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Aemilius wrote:I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter



How they know that it is unseen?


It works like this. From the redshifts of stars in another galaxy, one can deduce it's rate of rotation. From that one can work out the mass required to hold the rotating mass in place. This mass exceeds the mass of visible stars in the galaxy, even allowing for dust obscuration and such. If the only mass present were the stars and gas we can see, there would not be enough mass present to hold the galaxy together and it would simply fly apart.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
 
Posts: 3006
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby swampflower » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:01 pm

My speculation is the dark mass is all our heavy karma, man.
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
User avatar
swampflower
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Bellefonte, PA

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby Aemilius » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:22 am

Karma may hold the world together, but it is stored in the mind, according to general explanations, thus explain Vasubandhu and several others.
You could emphasize (to Vasubandhu) that mind has no independent existence, and because world is merely mind the karma is also there (?)

Buddha Shakyamuni says in the Bhavasankranti sutra that karma is not found anywhere at all, it is not in the eastern quarter, not in the southern quarter etc.., yet it has its effect accurately when there is a rebirth of a new being.

In the deva realms, and the lower realms, there is Rupa, which is explained to mean matter and form, (excluding ofcourse the arupa, that is formless or immaterial realms).
svaha
User avatar
Aemilius
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:30 pm

catmoon wrote:
It works like this. From the redshifts of stars in another galaxy, one can deduce it's rate of rotation. From that one can work out the mass required to hold the rotating mass in place. This mass exceeds the mass of visible stars in the galaxy, even allowing for dust obscuration and such. If the only mass present were the stars and gas we can see, there would not be enough mass present to hold the galaxy together and it would simply fly apart.


So how does the invisible mass interact with the visible mass?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby platypus » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:22 pm

LastLegend wrote:
catmoon wrote:
It works like this. From the redshifts of stars in another galaxy, one can deduce it's rate of rotation. From that one can work out the mass required to hold the rotating mass in place. This mass exceeds the mass of visible stars in the galaxy, even allowing for dust obscuration and such. If the only mass present were the stars and gas we can see, there would not be enough mass present to hold the galaxy together and it would simply fly apart.


So how does the invisible mass interact with the visible mass?
in this case through gravity.
platypus
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:05 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby Kai » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:15 pm

Aemilius wrote:I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter



:crazy: Please don't try, astronomers already have a great theory on the unseen matter. Its called dark energy (Repulsive gravitation force or likes) or dark matter (ultra tiny lepton particles), neither of which are spiritual realms or hidden universes...........
Kai
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:47 pm

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:39 pm

Kai wrote:
Aemilius wrote:I have read lately three or four books on astronomy, astronomers have calculated that there must be much more mass in the universe than is seen. This missing mass is called "dark matter". I suggest a buddhist explanation for the unseen matter: it is what makes up the lower and higher realms, realms that are not seen by humans normally. Astronomers say that about 76% or 83% of the mass of universe is in the category unseen matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter



:crazy: Please don't try, astronomers already have a great theory on the unseen matter. Its called dark energy (Repulsive gravitation force or likes) or dark matter (ultra tiny lepton particles), neither of which are spiritual realms or hidden universes...........
Really? I thought no one knew what dark energy and dark matter was made of? I did hear one theory that dark matter are planets and the like without any stars near by.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby wisdom » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:42 pm

The way it seems to me is that black holes are the cause for galaxies being held together. I base this on my observation that planets are the cause of holding moons in orbit, and stars are the cause of holding planets in orbit. We then see a black hole at the center of the galaxy, and many solar systems rotating around it, so the conclusion is that a black hole is what holds those stars in orbit. Since scientists don't understand black holes thoroughly, if I were them I would start my search there, and not with looking for invisible matter. I find it interesting how science claims to be based on observable phenomena, but more and more veers into the esoteric, postulating the existence of things nobody can see, measure, test, and so forth, especially when an explanation can literally be seen with our instruments and that explanation clearly reflects other observations made in nature that manifest the same phenomena (bodies of matter rotating around other bodies with higher density of gravity).

But nope! We need string theory and invisible matter and 13 dimensions and a god particle and...
User avatar
wisdom
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 am

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby catmoon » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:45 am

Researchrs have already explored all the more obvious explanations for the observed motions of galaxies and the stars within them, including black holes, dark planets, antimatter, and most varieties of known particles. Each explanation has in turn been found wanting, which is why they are still talking about "dark matter" and "dark energy".

The black hole idea falls to detailed measurements of rotational velocities in galaxies, plus global considerations of what the large scale effect on the universe would be if there were that many of them around.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
User avatar
catmoon
Former staff member
 
Posts: 3006
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am
Location: British Columbia

Re: Matter in Deva realms and the hell realms ?

Postby Kai » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:18 am

Konchog1 wrote:Really? I thought no one knew what dark energy and dark matter was made of? I did hear one theory that dark matter are planets and the like without any stars near by.


Dark matter are generally theorized to be just ultra micro objects like neutrinos and the other leptons, not macro objects like planets, black holes. Dark energy is, on the other hand, negative pressure caused by vacuum energy, in an easily comprehensive way it can be seen like a form of "repulsive gravitational force" (Although its not really the case) since it is related to the cosmological constant found in Einstein's general theory of relativity.

But nope! We need string theory and invisible matter and 13 dimensions and a god particle and...


String theory has 21 dimensions and superstring theory has only 11 dimension. In both cases, except for the first four dimensions, the rest are relatively small and cannot be observed at all.

The so called God particle is just higgs bosons mechanism to explain mass with some scientists preferring micro black hole to that theory.
Kai
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:47 pm


Return to Mahāyāna Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: namoh and 12 guests

>