Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:29 pm
Okay, enough of mental masturbation.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.
A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
https://www.dharmawheel.net:443/
Yes, of course the reality of things is unconditioned, since it is not a product. Anything which is a product is by definition is conditioned; anything which is not a product is unconditioned.Huseng wrote:Namdrol,
You said,
Do you mean they are unconditioned?Namdrol wrote:Reality i.e. suchness, emptiness, etc., is not conditioned.
In other words, it is due to the reality of things (which you assert are not conditioned, which I'm wondering if you mean unconditioned like space), that things arise in dependence.I said that things arise in dependence i.e. dependently, because of the reality of things i.e. the reality of things being emptiess free from extremes.
Emptiness is not an efficient cause, but it is a formal cause, like space. In other words, if things were not empty, they could not arise since they would have to exist; the arising of the existent is a contradiction in terms.If you say that emptiness is unconditioned, then you have to explain how it has some kind of causal functionality which allows things to arise in dependence.
Sucness is not a product, therefore, it is unproduced. Whatever is unproduced is not subject to conditions. Whatever is not subject to conditions is, by strict definition, unconditioned.If you agree that suchness is neither conditioned nor unconditioned, then there is no disagreement. If you're saying that suchness is unconditioned (like empty space), then I will disagree.
I prophecise that your end time as himalayan spirit at dharmawheel will coincide with your increased frustration at not receiving intelligent prophecies which will lead to you not logging on anymore. Well, that's what I'm getting from my crystal rune ouija tarot board.himalayanspirit wrote:Okay, enough of mental masturbation.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.
No -- since things are not established, their suchness is not established either. That is the suchness of things.catmoon wrote:The suchness of things is conditional on the existence of things, is it not?
At the risk of starting from square 1 all over again, I ask... are you using "suchness" as a synonym for "emptiness"?Namdrol wrote:No -- since things are not established, their suchness is not established either. That is the suchness of things.catmoon wrote:The suchness of things is conditional on the existence of things, is it not?
N
You forgot Deepap Chakra books.gregkavarnos wrote:I prophecise that your end time as himalayan spirit at dharmawheel will coincide with your increased frustration at not receiving intelligent prophecies which will lead to you not logging on anymore. Well, that's what I'm getting from my crystal rune ouija tarot board.himalayanspirit wrote:Okay, enough of mental masturbation.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.
The reality of things -- namely, suchness -- if ascribed with a characteristic such as being unconditioned and, like space, having the quality of NOT being subject to arising, abiding and cessation, would be a posited view. Hence, your statement,Namdrol wrote: In other words, like space, the reality of things is not a product. Emptiness, suchness and so on are not produced, etc., it is in that sense along that we consider the reality of things "unconditioned".
is problematic because Madhyamaka teaches the cessation of all views via negation, not assertion.If you deny that suchness is unconditioned, you also disagree with the Madhyamaka school. For example the Tarkajvala states:
How are conditioned entities able to depend on that which is unconditioned for their existence?Emptiness is not an efficient cause, but it is a formal cause, like space. In other words, if things were not empty, they could not arise since they would have to exist; the arising of the existent is a contradiction in terms.
Here is a vivid description of the Kaliyuga as it concerns Boudhanath Stupa in Kathmandu:himalayanspirit wrote:Okay, enough of mental masturbation.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.
This passage does not assert a view it provides a definition.Huseng wrote:
is problematic because Madhyamaka teaches the cessation of all views via negation, not assertion.
They don't, nor did I claim they were.How are conditioned entities able to depend on that which is unconditioned for their existence?
According to Candrakirti, emptiness can be accepted as a basis for the arising of phenomena.My contention is that you assert it is unconditioned yet still forms an essential basis for which conditioned entities arise.
As I pointed out already, suchness can be defined as unconditioned.Suchness is free of characteristics like this -- it is not conditioned, it is not unconditioned. It is beyond all characteristics.
This is a very good book by Dr. Nattier. I think it was her PhD dissertation. Well worth reading cover to cover.Noah wrote:Has anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.com/Once-upon-Future- ... 0895819260" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is the only book I have any experience with on this subject and looks interesting
I don't know about Nichiren and Pureland but I do know that the only mapo I am extremely familiar with is this one: Eggplant, pork mince and tofu in a spicey-as-hell black bean sauce! Gotta love Sechuan cooking! I'm sure it would be a Purelanders nightmare to eat this.Aemilius wrote:...This last period is called Mofa in chinese and Mappo in japanese, Mappo should be familiar if you have read anything about Nichiren or Pureland schools.
The teachings of Lord Buddha will disappear.himalayanspirit wrote:Okay, enough of mental masturbation.
Now some actual End time prophecies please.