Enlightenment of Mahayanists and Vajrayanists

[himalayanspirit]

Shurangama Sutra claims that for one to attain perfect enlightenment, one has to complete eliminate all desires - especially sexual desires. Notable examples of our era is Venerable Hsu Yun who attained enlightement.

But the Vajrayanists - especially Tibetan Buddhists - claim that indulging in sexual practices is a must for one to attain enlightenment. There are many examples of Tibetan Yogis who attained enlightenment like this.

Now who is true between them? Who attains the real enlightenment? Also, what is the difference between "enlightenment" and "attaining Nirvana"? It is said in the Mahayana scriptures that one has to spend many eons and lives practicing as a Bodhisattva to attain enlightenment; yet many Chan masters attained enlightenment in one life itself?

[gnegirl]

They both do...there are many paths to the dharma, 80,000 gates.

None of them are wrong either, just different approaches for different beings.

[Malcolm]

Shurangama Sutra claims that for one to attain perfect enlightenment, one has to complete eliminate all desires - especially sexual desires. Notable examples of our era is Venerable Hsu Yun who attained enlightement.

But the Vajrayanists - especially Tibetan Buddhists - claim that indulging in sexual practices is a must for one to attain enlightenment. There are many examples of Tibetan Yogis who attained enlightenment like this.

Vajrayanist assert that in this day and age no one can give up attachment to sensual objects, therefor objects used for one's own gratification must be taken into the path. Hence the many kinds of offerings you find in Vajrayāna.

However, even in Vajrayāna the purpose is not to indulge the afflictions but rarther to transform the basis from which they arise. If you truly perceive everything to be a mandala of deities, than you will cease to engage in attachment and aversion. When that happens, you will cease to activate the three poisons.

So, the approach of Vajrayāna is to transform, rather than renounce.

Now who is true between them? Who attains the real enlightenment? Also, what is the difference between "enlightenment" and "attaining Nirvana"? It is said in the Mahayana scriptures that one has to spend many eons and lives practicing as a Bodhisattva to attain enlightenment; yet many Chan masters attained enlightenment in one life itself?

Awakening (bodhi) and Buddhahood are two different things -- those who have attained awakening are nevertheless still on the path.

[sangyey]

What constitutes attaining Bodhi (awakening)? Is if a specific level on the path,iI.e., paths of seeing, meditation, etc?

[Malcolm]

What constitutes attaining Bodhi (awakening)? Is if a specific level on the path,iI.e., paths of seeing, meditation, etc?

The path of seeing.

[Jnana]

But the Vajrayanists - especially Tibetan Buddhists - claim that indulging in sexual practices is a must for one to attain enlightenment.

Not all Tibetan lamas consider sexual union yogas to be necessary.

All the best,

Geoff