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The same in Theravada? - Dhamma Wheel

The same in Theravada?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
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Hunter
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The same in Theravada?

Postby Hunter » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:45 pm

In many other traditions of enlightenment and self-realization you will see the words Consciousness and Awareness. Are they the same according to buddhism, or are they different? I know some of you may not know of a man named Nisargadatta Maharaj, but he said they are different and that Awareness is above Consciousness. Another man named Ramana Maharshi said that they are the same, what is the definition of both in Theravada Buddhism?

:buddha1:
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."

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retrofuturist
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:55 pm

Greetings Hunter,

In Theravada, consciousness is always "consciousness of something". It is not a "thing" called consciousness which sits there glowing away.

There is eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, nose-consciousness, body-consciousness, mind-consciousness.

See for example...

SN 35.28: Fire Sermon
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebsut026.htm

Someone who thought consciousness was a "thing" that transmigrates from body to body was Sati the Fisherman's Son. The Buddha gave him a right good shelacking for his Wrong View...

MN 37: Culatanhasankhaya Sutta
http://dhammaweb.net/Tipitaka/read.php?id=71

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Hunter
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:07 am

Thank you Retro for clearing me up on what Consciousness is, but what is Awareness then? It is something different or the same?
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."

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retrofuturist
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:12 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Hunter
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:18 am

Im not sure how I would define it. The act of being aware?

Again im not to sure! Its not even mentioned as an aggrigate either, oh well. I wont dwell on it anymore. Its just that the two words have haunted me for a while because some say they are the same and others say they are not. It may not be of importance in Buddhism.
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."

User avatar
retrofuturist
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:20 am

Greetings Hunter,

Perhaps you might find this useful...

Sati-Sampajanna - Mindfulness and Self-Awareness (Sati-Sampajanna)
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... reness.pdf

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Goofaholix
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:02 am

I think Awareness is a translation of Sampajanna.

Sampajañña (Pāli; Skt.: samprajaña) means "clear comprehension," "clear knowing," "constant thorough understanding of impermanence," "fully alert" or "full awareness," as well as "attention, consideration, discrimination, comprehension, circumspection."

So Awareness is more of an umbrella, whereas Conciousness is arises and passes each time an object is known.

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Hunter
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Hunter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:07 am

Goofaholix, is Awareness like everything else impermenant too?
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."

Kenshou
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Kenshou » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:06 am

Yes.

I believe that consciousness and awareness are just different terms for the same thing for Buddhist purposes, the Pali viññana. Sampajañña has slightly different connotations than just "awareness", that is, awareness (of one's theme of contemplation) imbued with clarity and discrimination, etc.

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mikenz66
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:45 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:14 am


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kc2dpt
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:55 am

- Peter


PeterB
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:13 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:02 am


PeterB
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Re: The same in Theravada?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:57 am

Thats what I reckon too Goofaholix.


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