The Amazing Marathon Monks!

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The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby sraddha » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:08 am

This is what I mean when I say, Mahayana works!!! :twothumbsup:

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/319159_monk09.html

He covered up to 50 1/2 miles a day in yearslong journey
By ERIC TALMADGE
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MOUNT HIEI, Japan -- In Japan, Buddhist monks wear black. Dead people wear white.

For more than seven years, Genshin Fujinami dressed in white from head to toe while covering the backwoods trails of this sacred mountain in one of the world's most grueling feats -- a punishing quest that combined starvation, isolation and the equivalent of a lap around the equator.

For 1,000 days, rising well before dawn, Fujinami embarked alone, rain or shine, on his journey, running or briskly walking more than 50 miles -- that's almost two marathons -- each day as the trial neared its climax. Along with his white robes, his only gear was a pair of straw sandals, a long straw hat, candles, a shovel, a length of rope and a short sword.

The rope and sword weren't for survival -- if for some reason he could not complete his daily trek, he was to use them to kill himself.

"I would have chosen the rope over the knife because it's faster and cleaner. But, fortunately, it rarely comes to that," Fujinami, a stout man with a shaven head, said at a small temple deep in the mountains where he is now an abbot. On the wall behind him was a scroll with a painting of Fudo Myo-o, his guardian god, who normally is portrayed with a fearsome scowl, a raised sword and a backdrop of leaping flames.

Since 1885, only 48 "marathon monks" of Buddhism's Tendai sect have accomplished the ritual. Those who do earn the title of "dai-ajari," or living saint. At least one of the monks to attempt the trial is known to have killed himself in modern times, Fujinami said.

The quest dates to the eighth century and is believed to be a path to enlightenment. Monks carry a little book of prayers and incantations, which they offer at about 300 temples and sacred spots along the way. Other than that, they don't stop for breaks.

"You don't go on the trails to train, you go to offer prayers," he said. "Athletes do it for awards. We do it to grow spiritually."

Fujinami's spiritual training began when he became a monk at 19.

"I had a regular job before that, but I decided I wanted to join a monastery and think about my life," he said. "I think I found something that fits me well."

For many years, he lived a routine life, studying the sutras and teachings of Buddha. But at 34, he decided to undertake the most rigorous path his sect had to offer.

Two years later, he took his first steps.

"I didn't really train first," he said. "I just went out to learn the trails. Then I was off."

A strict regimen dictates that in each of the journey's first three years, the pilgrim must rise at midnight for 100 consecutive days to pray and run along an 18-mile trail around Mount Hiei, on the outskirts of the ancient capital of Kyoto. Fujinami left his temple at 1 in the morning, and returned about nine hours later to spend the rest of the day praying, cleaning or doing other chores. He slept three or four hours a night.

In the next two years, he had to extend his runs to 200 days. In the winter, the pilgrim runner gets to take a break.

Fujinami said the time spent on the trails is spread out over seven years not because of the rigors, but to allow for time to reflect.

"You learn how to see your real self," he said. "You learn to understand what is important and what isn't."

Fujinami said his most difficult trial came during the fifth year, when he had to sit in the lotus position before a raging fire and chant mantras for nine days without food, water or sleep in an esoteric ritual called "doiri," or "entering the temple."

After 330 prostrations, the monk repeats a mantra to Fudo Myo-o 100,000 times. Two attendants take turns being with him before the altar to keep watch, making sure he doesn't stop, fall asleep or pass out. On the fifth day, the monk is allowed to rinse out his mouth, but not to swallow the water.

"You can only do this after preparing," he said. "After about four days, you really start to lose your strength and your clarity. You stop caring about anything. But you have to keep sitting upright and repeating the mantras."

In the sixth year, Fujinami covered 37 1/2 miles every day for 100 days. And in the seventh year, he went 52 1/2 miles for 100 days and then 18 miles for another 100 days.

"There are times when you fall into a slump and just don't want to go on," he said. "It's hardest in the summer. You wonder why you have to suffer like this."

Fujinami ran his last circuit in 2003 -- when he was 44.

The quest has earned Fujinami the respect of extreme athletes around the world.

One of them is Dave Ganci, who wrote about the monks in Trail Runner magazine and has trained Special Forces, including Navy SEALS, for the U.S. military.

"I have been out on the thin edge of heat, cold, fatigue, starvation and dehydration stress many times and to the point where I had to play mental games with my body to keep it moving," Ganci said in an e-mail from his home in Arizona, where he teaches survival skills.

"I still cannot identify with the marathon monks' regimen and how they accomplish their feats by any physical definition," he said. "It has to be a mental quality that carries them through the pain, fatigue, thirst, hunger, heat, cold and whatever dragons they meet on the trail."
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:33 pm

Whoa! :o

:namaste:
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby sraddha » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:53 pm

It's the equivalent of going around the world almost once in straw sandals while eating a little miso soup and tofu -- this includes COMPLETE fasting for 9 days -- no food, no water -- after which they continue their run/walk!!! :jawdrop:
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby White Lotus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:41 pm

So.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:11 pm

To add a bit perhaps...

there are those in Buddhism that hold meditation to be a thing done while sitting on a mat in a temple or other place with perhaps the sound of a running brook or complete silence. There are also those that contend meditation may be a thing of the greatly physical such as sitting under a waterfall or doing such other things.

So there is a divergence on view as to what constitutes meditation. I'd guess both have their place, but what do I know?
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Huifeng » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:43 am

How does this develop the perfections and bring one closer to anuttara samyak sambodhi?
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:05 am

As just a uneducated layperson with a little spiritual practice and not a shred of accomplishment I will nevertheless venture a guess.....

as any thing, thought, done, accomplished or not accomplished, may do these things. That may be considered how...... I'd conjecture. As in any circumstance it appears may favor understanding, so understanding may favor the creation of many circumstances to furthur its realization.

JUst to my personal view, it seems the same really as any other. Understanding always but a step or breath or bit of a second away, from what is. What is that, that fosters the understanding of things as they are; a bird a breeze, a tree, a visitor, a being, a meditation, a thing memorized, or learned, or all these things or none of these things? For some I'd say all, for none I'd say none of these things.

Which can we exclude and which can we affirm, is only this thing described?
I say all, but that is a personal view, not necessarily a Buddhist view. I do not know what constitutes this thing called Buddhism.
So that is my guess. All not none, may affirm these things described. I stand firmly on that position.
Suchly their practice I do consider....their practice.
And my guess also concludes....effective practice for them it most probably is, if completed as completed by them, it may be.

So that's my answer if question be asked. If question be not asked....simply disregard.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Dana » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:20 pm

This sort of thing seems to be extreme and far from the middle way at first glance and would likely be way over the top for most of us.
Perhaps tho, it is suitable and a middle way for those whose energy is so powerful and disturbed that this is the only way to get some degree of control or quiescence.

In the tales of Don Juan, by Carlos Castaneda, true or not, and with other traditional practices more reputably described, during ritual experiences with entheogens there is a lot of physical activity, as tho to calm that energy enough to disallow it to interfere with the internal activity or view. And as in Carlos' case, to calm his fears, a great part of that turbulent energy constantly running interference tho he was a novice and it is interesting to see that monkey mind portrayed so vividly in his books, if nothing else.

I wonder if the monks train as monks for any length of time before they undertake this particular ritual.

But hard to fathom is the reason for taking one's own life in the case of failure to complete the endurance ritual. The only way I can make sense of it is in a practical way of beginning again but I would be loath and fearful of giving up my precious human rebirth, so difficult to attain and risk failing twice.

D
Last edited by Dana on Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby White Lotus » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:45 pm

to cheekily quote another posters footnote caption:

"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


love, White Lotus. xxx

nothing exists for nothing,
a true spread doesnt exit.
try the marmite. it sticks in your mouth.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:55 pm

Exactly, and that from a well known and substantiated practice.

I consider myself not necessarily Buddhist, as who knows what that means in this place in time, I certainly do not hold qualification to make such a distinction. But that aside, at least a month and a half I do spend in wilderness currently every year, much of it engaged due to topography altitude and strenous conditions involved in the physical. Deny my practice as producing any thing spiritual, well, who is drawing that distinction? And if that distinciton is made to what criteria? I hold only one criteria viable and this known to Buddhism as well....the criteria of compassion. If more compassion is ensueing, even slightly more, the practice is productive. I hold no great compassion but do find what compassion I do seem to hold, is slightly greater than when I firstly engaged this thing.

So fire away....say it is wrong., I don't give a fig on that opinion. I can substantiate it very easily within the school from which it is derived, and that is a Buddhist school indeed. Request substantiation....it will be provided.

That one committed suicide on engageing that practice described....I have heard of many even perhaps one in the Buddhas time who committed suicide as a cosequence of attempting to pursue a spiritual path. That mistake is made sometimes. That one does that, does not invaldate the spiritual path pursued. If it did, virtually no spiritual path would be available. I have heard of this practice of these monks described in media before and nowhere have I heard it described as mandatory if a part of the practice is not completed to commit suicide as the article infers. Sensationalism to produce a interesting story is my guess, to perhaps a particular auidence in which suicide is a thing of great concern.

That also hence aside....I find this practice exactly equal to my practice and any other Buddhist practice in this context. I do not follow their practice it is not for me. Relatedly perhaps more than other Buddhists following other practices, mine is much more similiar. Close enough for me to state......deny my practice, I will defend it in every aspect. And that defense since these practices are so similiar will defend that practice described as well.

So again fire away.....I will defend, as best I may this practice described from within my practice as described.

(jokeing)....oh oh dear readers, one of these heritics so described may be before us!!

If I could be presumptive enough to state any equality of spiritual progress equal to theirs which I certainly do not..being a layperson with no accomplisment and a slothful lazy practice mine is,and theirs seemingly not.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Dana » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:01 pm

So fire away....say it is wrong., I don't give a fig on that opinion. I can substantiate it very easily within the school from which it is derived, and that is a Buddhist school indeed.

You know if it's right or a wrong practice for you, I'd guess and hope that no one judges you in that way.


Request substantiation....it will be provided.
Umm, now Ron, this sounds interesting or is that an internal rhetorical? :smile:


but then again in the news we hear that a past Pope had practiced self flagellation ( a proof of sainthood to some in that particular tradition), something the Buddha decried - yes?

So, there is a fine balance to this middle way thing.

However, I do envy you the view from up there.

D
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:29 pm

I certainly don't put myself up there anywhere. As stated I am but a layperson with a very small practice, but nevertheless it is a spiritual practice.

As to this..."Request substantiation....it will be provided.
Umm, now Ron, this sounds interesting or is that an internal rhetorical?
"

I am probably unclear which is not necessarily a unusual thing for me. I can substantiate the statements, such as found in my addon at the bottom, from sources within Buddhism that are considered authoritative sources from the school I have stolen them from. This school of Buddhism does apply method that are stated to be in their inception derived from the teacher Buddha himself but expounded upon and enlarged into a body of works. Lineage claims derivitive from the teacher Buddha himself. If such lineage was not able to be provided it would be considered to be not Buddhism, but something else.
So if pressed I could provide such lineage with a little time and effort.

As to self flagilation....well this is not such a thing, this particular practice. Popes have done all sorts of things, they are deluded to my opinion.

The general idea is that the thing called Buddhism is essentially in this regard a process to understand our reality. If we see things as they are we naturally stop the production of defilements and misguided direction in our lives. So we endeavor to understand things as they are. What is closest to us is mind. As such this is the easiest tool, far easier than external devices or observation thorough which we may understand things. Now what viability is the understandings derived from mind if they are only engaged into when mind is only in certain circumstance, perhaps circumstances of peace and calm? If one considers our external derivitive of our internally perceived states(as I do) we then would learn from such external circumstances one aspect only of mind. Hence when we were in self created other circumstance in which our belly was not full our understandings and thusly our spiritual practice would quickly start to dissolve. Not to impinge others practice but this may be the circumstance when peoples go through three years and three months in monestary feel great accomplishment but rapidly revert to the same old same old when they return to the "outside" world. There is considered a place and time to learn calm and quietitude, as there is considered a place and time for no thought meditations but this is not the all. We,it is considered, must eandeavor every circumstance possible to truly know the mind and how consciousness works. They used to say there are no atheists in foxholes. We put ourselves in foxholes intentionally to see if we do indeed revert to lower ways of looking at things objectification self other and all the rest when in such circumstances. Death to my view is one such being in a foxhole. So we must prepare.

But foxholes is not all we put ourselves in. I for instance will engage quite often in monestic type settings for meditiational experience of mind in those situations. Calm mind is part of mind as well as agitated mind is part of mind. We are indeed instructed to put ourselves in settings of great variance to learn consciousness, to include monestary, city, wilderness, haunted places, places where our lives are at risk, places where we are quite safe, and all the rest that may be possible without ending our lives. We do not take life ending risk, though some have in the past, presently this is not advsed. If I for instance get a flu that is very serious, that is a very excellent opportunity to learn mind in circumstance of death or impending death and relate the issue of what it is that dies to dying and sickness to what it is that gets sick and the concept of being sick. But we are instructed to still take flu medications and such, so we do not end our life prematurely. This life is absolutely necessary for continuance; so we may continue our spiritual practice.This life is very handy for that purpose.

My personal life in this present time is involved quite often with city and some money pursuits by circumstance(even though I do not work). So I may endeavor to seek out wilderness and other unusual things more than if perhaps my life was one of quiettude. The aim is to produce all circumstance not just one kind so we may learn all mind and all consciousness not just one aspect. So we thusly endeavor. It is not to mortify the flesh or some sort of thing. Penitenties in fact are the most extreme of those mortifiers of flesh in Christianity and do still live and practice in New Mexico. Though I have seen evidence of there presence in areas I also inhabit at times in wilderness, I follow none of thier spiritual practices, to my view it would be a degeneracy of spiritual understanding.

When we engage in such things as in wilderness, we are in fact instructed to not engage in any complex spiritual practices, praying or any sorts of those things. We are instructed to only offer a simple offering perhaps to the local spirits(they inhabit such places) so we will not be bothered by intruding into their places and go about our business of watching mind and consciousness to exclusion of all else. I sing mantra when I need a break and also to give such things a experince of dharma but that is not normally part of the practice. The practice is generally, watching. So we watch mind.

To add....I say we and such, out of habit, but am practicing a personal practice that I do not call Buddhist practice. However I can substantiate each and every aspect of what I state from my Buddhist practice manual and related materials. So highlight a section of what I have just stated.....and I can quite quickly show you reference materials page publication and verse affirming what I state to be stolen from Buddhism. Showing lineage may take more work. Showing source for what I say on practice, is quite easily done by myself. To assist my practice I do review material quite often and they are quite fresh. This board in fact incites me to review practice specifics at times due to this circumstance, and thusly serves to keep my view fresh. Years ago some Buddhists would argue points of dharma(and this continues to some limited degree amongst monks currently) to learn and study mind and minds reaction to such things. Not to learn and study specific intelligencia such as how many angels can fit on the head of a pin or to win a argument, but to know exactly how certain is one in what one knows to be true. So this board may serve as valid experience as wilderness. However I can certainly not be on this board at all times always as this thing must be balanced, part city part wilderness, part board/debate, part study, part haunted place, part monestary, and on and on. It may seem to some....well this is but a regular life, he likes to go in forest to be in a nice place. And that is true to a extent but the actuality is....it is a directed life for specific purpose. And this practice folllows many years endevoring preliminaries, which are eventually preliminaries to this practice, So another one may state....ah, he has lost his practice he does not even do prostrations any more, nor receite his text by memory. And they are right as well, I have lost that practice. But that practice is not mine. I endeavor this thing to every extent, to understand this thing, that appears before us. But I find....I personally do not revert. So whereever I am, I am there, and circumstance it matters little. No holy one day, venial the next. No intelligent one day, and dumb the next. I am not accomplished, and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but progress(though in very slight form) I have. And when there.....it is there as premenantly as anything may be said to be permanent. That is a effect of this particular practice, but it is not for everyone. I direct this towards understanding, not a heaven state, I care not a whit about happy or sad. That is also a effect of this particular practice. 6 billion can care about that, one more doesn't matter not a whit, so I will have no part of it. I find very few times when I am not engageing this practice, it seems, about always.

So hopefully I have explained it. Keep in mind I am only a uneducated layperson with a very minor practice but practice it is and in those terms as equal to any other. And it is firmly absolutely not framed in a theist context, nor ascetic context, but in a Buddhist concext, though it might not be one others are familiar with. Did the Buddha not reject all those other views, but did he not before his rejection not also become familiar with all those views by employing those views?. Was the Buddha then seperate from those things and the only valid part of the Buddhas story being the portion spent in silent meditative practice under a tree....well that view has credence, but I personally suppose not...all must be endeavored to understand all. So we may end up finally understanding and the last act being under that tree, but to my view the last act does not discount that which leads up to the last act. I would be very presumptious to think, by my opinion, I could endeavor to sit under that tree for several days and realize the Buddha's view. Nor that I could sit under that tree, as the Buddha did for even a entire life and become what the Buddha was. His life was a story a example to follow. So I copy the Buddha but not just the final part; that is the thinking. I first master the world as a warrior does. Become a victor and prince. I then master the mind, through discipline devotion and sitting meditation. Then by my experience of the thing closest to me, through these particular means... I study what is. That is how I see it. And not to state it is better than any other way of looking at these things. It is superior...for me, that I know.
Finally in the end I supect, I find myself under that tree and within a short period... understand it all....I cannot discount what leads up to that; skip all the begining and middle and just sit under the tree from the begining. It will not work for me, perhaps for you, if very particular circumstance of prior life leads you that way. But is it Buddhist, this path....read that, and say it is not.

Those Japanese monks....I suspect a reporter could take my exact practice and make it into any number of things. I go to haunted places as part of practice. The reporter could say I practice a form of dead worship or any sort of thing. I suspect the monks have been misinterpreted. I suspect their practice may be similiar to mine in many fashions. They are endeavoring to understand this thing that appears before them.... so it seems very Buddhist to me.

A very long intricate post(and also not well written).....hardly any will be able to follow it in this day and age, not a whit. And that is a good thing by my take. I write it for myself, none other. Enjoy!!!

So I have responded and refuted the notion the Japanese monks practices are not to be considered Buddhist ones. I await a counter....
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:43 pm

Huifeng wrote:How does this develop the perfections and bring one closer to anuttara samyak sambodhi?


This is a really salient point.

When I've inquired about typical monastic life the answers vary of course. But usually the monastics I've known keep a rigorous schedule in order to accomplish meditation, study, work at upkeep of the monastery, meals, etc. and lots of community activity involving the triple gem and/or social services.

It makes me tired to think of it! I've also heard that in some monasteries people don't get a lot of sleep due to the schedules.

These activities seem very conducive to the path! But if someone with better insight into monastic life would like to add to this or make corrections, please do! :)

Best,
Laura
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:55 pm

The article linked describes monks and practices they endeavor as part of the sect.
So this is what those monks do. The article may not be entirely accurate,that we can perhaps agree on. The fact that these are monks engageing in activities sanctioned in their sect as monk activities, I contend, cannot seemingly be disputed.

Thusly the statement quoted may be a salient point, but if the implication is that monks may endeavor their spiritual pursuit in only one fashion or the fashion described to our personal experience, that is apparently as found in the linked description....wrong.

These are monks of a recognized sect with lineage endeavoring in activities sanctioned by their sect to be monk activities. The same as perhaps, sitting meditations or other activities may be sanctioned by other sects to be monk activities.

If someone wants to say,they are not monks they are not behaving as monks I know act.....that may be a point, but presumeably a very dull one. It is not sustainable. If one does consider that point sustainable, I'd suggest now is the time. Defend the contention monks must behave in a particular way. Excepting what may be required by monks to adhere to within their particular classification as monks, and to their sects interpretation of what they must adhere to, based upon the Buddhas words and their sects interpretation of the meaning of those words.

So defend it. I say it is not necessarily so. Monks act as their Buddhist lineage determins they must act. Much variance is present. If ones intent is to defend such a statement. If not...well yes that is a interesting observation. These monks do not act as monks I know act as well. The point mentioned is not remotely related.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:25 am

If someone wants to say,they are not monks they are not behaving as monks I know act.....that may be a point, but presumeably a very dull one. It is not sustainable. If one does consider that point sustainable, I'd suggest now is the time. Defend the contention monks must behave in a particular way. Excepting what may be required by monks to adhere to within their particular classification as monks, and to their sects interpretation of what they must adhere to, based upon the Buddhas words and their sects interpretation of the meaning of those words.


Hi Ron,

If this is in response to my remark, I have nothing to defend. I have no authority over the activities or behaviors of monastics in any tradition or sect. I do find Venerable's remark interesting so maybe he can expand.

Kidndly,
Laura
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:40 am

Yes certainly. My resonse was in regards to your last post. The inferal I supposed was that the particular observation of how monks act did in fact reinforce that quotation from a earlier post. So I refuted that specific, but did allow for the possibility that it was a independent observation in no relationship to the quotation(my last line).

I personally have great difficulty engageing in debate with ordained members as generally it produces negative karmic effect. Unless a great great good would be the expectation I generally would not engage directly in such activity. If Venerable does engage to furthur that specific point unless with a alias of some sort, that does not imply ordination status, I would find it very difficult to engage in direct debate. Others that may pick up on that point and attempt to furthur or reinforce, and I will certainly engage them on it.

Sounds funny probably but I take Karmic effect very seriously to my way of thinking.

So If he directly engages as Venerable, I probably will not respond. If others then respond to his point I may respond to their response. As a layperson I must act in this fashion.

As a aside it seems peoples leave the internet to be under the purview of some other rules of cause and effect perhaps due to the ananimity factor to it; quite often leaving all compassion and honesty long behind. Certainly a layperson would never directly oppose a monastic in very public debate in the real world unless under very specific select circumstances. If they wanted to avoid some specific negatives from occuring due to the effect of this action.(jokeing) Negatives like being born a water snake with seventy heads.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:05 am

Hi Ron,

I understand, I hesitate as well to engage in any debates, much less with Venerables :)

Kindly,
Laura

edited to add: I hope I don't sound judgmental of anyone :)
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Dana » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:28 am

But that aside, at least a month and a half I do spend in wilderness currently every year, much of it engaged due to topography altitude....."

This view Ron? :twothumbsup: :thinking: :namaste:
It seems an exquisite place to go to practice tho arduous getting there.

D
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:17 am

D

My practice is but a very simple one of watching mind, which suits my very simple uneducated self. I have been instructed by a specific Rinpoche to never stop doing this particular thing.

The quote I have at the bottom of my posts is from, "Mahamudra The Quintessence of Mind and Meditation. I will not state that is my practice. I am however very familiar with that subject material. It is Tibetan Buddhist subject material. Many practice Mahamudra in the west, but seemingly not as it is found in core teachings I am somewhat familiar with. So I do not know what they practice, but my practice is not that, it is much more simple than that. So what I practice, may not even be Buddhism, but nevertheless I have been told by a Tibetan Kagyu Buddhist Rinpoche, I have known, who was a lama, to never let anyone tell me I may not practice that....so I do continue, and will for this lifetime.

What ever it is I do it.

The wilderness is but part of my practice. In my practice I must engage mind and awareness in all things, city, monastery, haunted places, and whatever. I can provide quote to show that is not a unusual or just personal thing, if requested from source materials. How many others do this in this manner currently I don't even slightly know(it seems few). But that from which my simple practice is seemingly related.... it is quite firmly Buddhism. That I can easily prove from lineage sources.

So as this is(the core teaching) seemingly may be the Japanese monks practice be... Buddhism, to my opinion. I find my claim not yet refuted.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: The Amazing Marathon Monks!

Postby Seishin » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:28 am

Hi all,

The sect in question is the Tendai sect of Japan. The marathon practice, or kaihogyo, is but one part of the sect. Because Tendai is so ecclectic, the ordained or advanced students will sometimes choose one particular part of the practice to master, or reach enlightenment, although all monastics would have practice all the different forms of the practice so some degree. Most Tendai ordained practice kaihogyo as more of a form of pilgrimage, and not for so long.

Here you can see some of the many Tendai practices. http://quietmountain.org/dharmacenters/buddhadendo/view.htm

For more info about Tendai and it's practices, please see these links;
http://www.tendai.org/
http://www.quietmountain.org/dharmacenters/buddhadendo/TENDAI.HTM
http://www.caltendai.org/

Nios. :smile:
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