Buddhism: Only True Religion

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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Kyosan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:22 am

I think that it is very possible that some religions that outwardly appear to be much different than Buddhism are true also and in fact lead to the same Nirvana as Buddhism. Here are two reasons:

1. Bodhisattvas can appear in different forms and use different expedients depending upon the circumstanses. That doesn't mean that these bodhisattvas come from Buddhism, but they may be people from other cultures and have discovered the same truth as Buddha did and are using what they feel are the best expedients.

2. Religions are often interpreted differently or even misunderstood. On this other forum (not a Buddhist forum) I was on, some of the people were really attacking Islam and the Muslim people. I was troubled by this and thought they were being very unfair so I defended them. I did some research into Islam and it was really interesting to me that there is an esoteric form of Islam called Sufism in which many of the practices are very similar to Buddhism. I'm not saying that this form of Islam is the same as Buddhism but am leaving that as an unknown in my mind because I don't know yet where Buddhism ultimately leads so how can I possibly know where Sufism leads when I haven't studied it.
Last edited by Kyosan on Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Malcolm » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:11 am

Kyosan wrote: have discovered the same truth as Buddha did and are using what they feel are the best expedients.


Well, you have to decide what truth Buddha discovered, and then compare.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Will » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:45 am

Nagarjuna with Bhikshu Vasitva comments:

082
All of the treatises as well as the specialized skills,
The occult and mundane sciences, and the various trades—
Because they bring benefit to the world,
One brings them forth and establishes them.


“Treatises” refers to those on printing, mathematics, metallurgy,
medicine, exorcism for ghost-possession, and rescue of poisoning
victims. It also refers to treatises on public works, agriculture, horticulture,
medicinal herbs, forests, and so forth. And it also includes
those devoted to gemology, astronomy, interpretation of dreams,
and physiognomy.
Everything beneficial to the world is lost during the deterioration
of each kalpa. As the kalpa develops again, these things must
be brought forth and established again among people. “Specialized
skills” include working with wood, iron, clay, copper, and such.
They include all occult and mundane sciences including exorcisms,
dealing with insanity, poisoning, digestive afflictions, and so forth.
They also include carving, painting, embroidery, weaving, and such,
including all of the different sorts of trades. One brings forth and
establishes whatever brings benefit and happiness to the world.


We forget that bodhisattvas do not just "teach" the buddhadharma via lectures or writings or meditative practices. They bring whatever benefits to the world. That suggests they are often not religious in garb or manner, much less "Buddhist".
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby ground » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:45 am

Will wrote:Before the Dalai Lama left Tibet he thought Buddhism was the "only true religion". But his attitude changed when he visited India in 1956. What happened in India?

My visit to the Theosophical Society in Chennai (then Madras) left a powerful impression. There I was directly exposed to people, and to a movement, that attempted to bring together the wisdom of the world's spiritual traditions, as well as science... After more than three months in what was a most amazing country ... I was a changed man. I could no longer live in the comfort of an exclusivist standpoint that takes Buddhism to be the only true religion.
From Toward a True Kinship of Faiths

TMingyur wrote:Isolated Tibet with its isolated truths. What happened in India? Obviously the experience that "the isolated truths of isolated Tibet" is not "all".

Will wrote:Do not have the quote in front of me, but the Dalai Lama said that the sincerity and openness to all religions of the Theosophical Society members he met in India was what changed him.


Yes. How could he have learned about that in Tibet?

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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:22 am

Will wrote:We forget that bodhisattvas do not just "teach" the buddhadharma via lectures or writings or meditative practices. They bring whatever benefits to the world. That suggests they are often not religious in garb or manner, much less "Buddhist".


Well, since such a Bodhisattva is by definition someone who (1) conceived the wish to help all beings attain Buddhahood as defined by the Mahayana Buddhist doctrine and (2) who has realized emptiness to such an extent that he or she "abides" on the first Bodhisattva bhumi or beyond, it's obvious that all such Bodhisattvas are inwardly "Buddhist" despite the manner of skillful means they may employ to guide others.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby ground » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:29 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Well, since such a Bodhisattva is by definition someone who (1) conceived the wish to help all beings attain Buddhahood as defined by the Mahayana Buddhist doctrine and (2) who has realized emptiness to such an extent that he or she "abides" on the first Bodhisattva bhumi or beyond, ...


According to the lineage which includes Shantideva a bodhisattva is someone who has conventional bodhicitta. So the validity of "bodhisattva" and "Mahayana" merely depends on this.

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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby muni » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:54 am

Those who call themselves buddhists don't try to purify or correct the objects appaering in the fields but own attachment, aversion, ignorance. Than the way how others appaer and how they are can come in clarity.

Sometimes here passes a Jehovah follower, friendly and careful. She never sells ideas rather talk generally. Someone said joking: she certainly don't ask a buddhist: "would you like to get rid of "me"?
She is respectful for all.

Not religions need to be purified. Truth is beyond. His Holiness.
We keep trying to tie knots in the vast, open sky, so we have something to hold onto to.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby muni » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:20 am

Buddhism, solution to get rid of all enemies/fools at once.
We keep trying to tie knots in the vast, open sky, so we have something to hold onto to.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Will » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:11 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Will wrote:We forget that bodhisattvas do not just "teach" the buddhadharma via lectures or writings or meditative practices. They bring whatever benefits to the world. That suggests they are often not religious in garb or manner, much less "Buddhist".


Well, since such a Bodhisattva is by definition someone who (1) conceived the wish to help all beings attain Buddhahood as defined by the Mahayana Buddhist doctrine and (2) who has realized emptiness to such an extent that he or she "abides" on the first Bodhisattva bhumi or beyond, it's obvious that all such Bodhisattvas are inwardly "Buddhist" despite the manner of skillful means they may employ to guide others.


Those two points are certainly true for any bodhisattvas who have appeared since the time of Gautama Buddha. But what about the ages before that time? And after our Buddha's teachings are gone - what then? Do bodhisattvas only help beings during the dispensation of a Buddha? That certainly would make the bodhisattva vow easier and more convenient to fulfill. But I think that is not the case - bodhisattvas work in all times, places, realms, and with any sort of appearance that benefits beings.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby ground » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:11 pm

Will wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Will wrote:We forget that bodhisattvas do not just "teach" the buddhadharma via lectures or writings or meditative practices. They bring whatever benefits to the world. That suggests they are often not religious in garb or manner, much less "Buddhist".


Well, since such a Bodhisattva is by definition someone who (1) conceived the wish to help all beings attain Buddhahood as defined by the Mahayana Buddhist doctrine and (2) who has realized emptiness to such an extent that he or she "abides" on the first Bodhisattva bhumi or beyond, it's obvious that all such Bodhisattvas are inwardly "Buddhist" despite the manner of skillful means they may employ to guide others.


Those two points are certainly true for any bodhisattvas who have appeared since the time of Gautama Buddha.

Not so according to the lineage which includes Shantideva because in this context a bodhisattva is someone who has awakened to conventional bodhicitta. So the validity of "bodhisattva" and "Mahayana" merely depends on this.

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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Kyosan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:58 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Kyosan wrote: have discovered the same truth as Buddha did and are using what they feel are the best expedients.


Well, you have to decide what truth Buddha discovered, and then compare.

I don't think it's a matter of being indecisive but rather a matter of realizing my own limitations and being cautious. Being a Buddhist and living in a non-Buddhist country, I have encountered people who are ignorant about Buddhism and at the same time think that they know what Buddhism is and make false statements about it. If a person doesn't know about something it's better to be honest about it, honest with oneself and honest with others. I don't want to be like those people who have false ideas and make false statements out of ignorance.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Rael » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:03 pm

Namdrol wrote:
LastLegend wrote:We Buddhists often possess the attitude of Mahayana versus Theravada as one is superior to the other. Surely we can extend this attitude to non-Buddhist also.



Depends on what result one wants. Non-Buddhist religions do not result in Buddhahood, it is not their goal. Buddhahood is not the goal of Theravada either.

I disagree totally.

The Buddha was not the Buddha and his awakening was not Buddha hood till those words were used to describe the condition.

Your hung up on words Namdrol and want to own the condition known as Buddhahood.

You can't own it, nor the Buddhist....

do you really think the state of Buddhahood is some worldly club or something. You sound like it when you start using the words religion and non-Buddhist together....People can become the state we call Buddhahood without being Buddhist....

I realize the need in people to pigion hole and have these neat little labels.....

When talking about a state of being that no one can describe in words and can only be shared by those who have attained it.....one misses the mark when the labels pour out and superlatives are bandied about to own a thing that is not a thing...

lol....
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Rael » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:34 pm

Namdrol wrote:

What HHDL means is that among religions there is no shared authority, no central committee deciding for everyone what is true and what is false. Recognizing the subjective nature of religious opinion, HHDL offers a more secular view. This is correct. To protect everyone's liberty, it is necessary to subordinate religious views to secular law i.e. insist on separation of church and state.

Since there can be no agreement among various religions around which is the "true" religion -- tolerance is required. This however does not mean that if you are a Buddhist you are required to think that Christianity makes truths claims that are as valid as Buddhist truth claims. All that needs to be recognized is that all religions make truth claims that cannot be verified by any mutually agreed upon standard.

So, I know for a fact that HHDL feels that Buddhism is the best religion. He also recognizes that this is just an opinion and insisting on this opinion to someone who does not share the same idea leads to strife and war. So rather than insisting that Buddhism is the best religion for everyone, he merely asserts it is the best religion for himself.

Then, when we cross that divide, we try to look at people from the point of view of their goodness. We try to meet people at that point.

Since we cannot make all religions the same, we need to recognize where it is that people are the same. Where they are the same is that they want happiness and freedom from suffering -- and religions evolve to provide those answers, differently for different people.

What HHDL means is that among religions there is no shared authority, no central committee deciding for everyone what is true and what is false.


is that your opinion or can you provide any sort of dialogue or writing by His Holiness to back that up with


if you are a Buddhist you are required to think that Christianity makes truths claims that are as valid as Buddhist truth claims. All that needs to be recognized is that all religions make truth claims that cannot be verified by any mutually agreed upon standard.


Only from a sundry mundane view...
When the Buddha turns the Dharma Wheel all manner of teachings leading sentients to practice some form of the Noble Eightfold Path due to their capacity appear....


when you say
So, I know for a fact that HHDL feels that Buddhism is the best religion


your imputing your sundry mundane unenlightened view upon an enlightened being, without providing actual dialogue or writing from Him...conjecture of this sort is character assassination of an Enlightened Being


Since we cannot make all religions the same, we need to recognize where it is that people are the same. Where they are the same is that they want happiness and freedom from suffering -- and religions evolve to provide those answers, differently for different people



the Buddha's wisdom in turning the Dharma Wheel is sufficient....
religions don't evolve to provide answers they appear to lead all people to liberation....
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:36 pm

Kyosan wrote:...I have encountered people who are ignorant about Buddhism and at the same time think that they know what Buddhism is and make false statements about it.
Shiiiiiit! I could think of at least 10 people on this site that fit this description! And they consider themselves Buddhists!
(considers including himself and making the count 11 :tongue: )
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Tilopa » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:12 pm

Rael wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Depends on what result one wants. Non-Buddhist religions do not result in Buddhahood, it is not their goal. Buddhahood is not the goal of Theravada either.

I disagree totally.

From careful study comes the knowledge of what Buddhahood is and what must be done to achieve it. Then comes the understanding that what Namdrol says here is completely correct.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Kyosan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:16 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Kyosan wrote:...I have encountered people who are ignorant about Buddhism and at the same time think that they know what Buddhism is and make false statements about it.
Shiiiiiit! I could think of at least 10 people on this site that fit this description! And they consider themselves Buddhists!
(considers including himself and making the count 11 :tongue: )
:namaste:

:applause: That's a good one.

I was thinking of the people who think Buddhists worship gods or sacrifice goats, and even those people who think that it's all just superstition.
:namaste:
Last edited by Kyosan on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Tilopa » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:20 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Kyosan wrote:...I have encountered people who are ignorant about Buddhism and at the same time think that they know what Buddhism is and make false statements about it.
Shiiiiiit! I could think of at least 10 people on this site that fit this description! And they consider themselves Buddhists!
(considers including himself and making the count 11 :tongue: )

Only 10? :rolling:
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:32 pm

Kyosan wrote:I was thinking of the people who think Buddhists worship gods or sacrifice goats, and even those people who think that it's all just superstition.
Yeah those idiots, how can they get it so wrong, I mean everybody knows that Buddhists worship goats and sacrifice Gods!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Kyosan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:37 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Kyosan wrote:I was thinking of the people who think Buddhists worship gods or sacrifice goats, and even those people who think that it's all just superstition.
Yeah those idiots, how can they get it so wrong, I mean everybody knows that Buddhists worship goats and sacrifice Gods!
:namaste:

That's right. We need to set them straight on that.
:namaste:
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Re: Buddhism: Only True Religion

Postby Jikan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:48 pm

Kyosan wrote:I was thinking of the people who think Buddhists worship gods or sacrifice goats, and even those people who think that it's all just superstition.


Well, looks like I'll need to buy goat feed after all. :cheers:
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