Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

General forum on Mahayana.

Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Inge » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:39 pm

Hi
Can you tell me if the The 12 Major and 48 Secondary Precepts of the Bodhisattva Canon are from the tradition of Nagarjuna?

Or are they from the Brahma Net Sutra?

If the above is not from the tradition of Nagarjuna, can you refer me to a online resource listing the major and minor Bodhisattva Precepts in his tradition?
User avatar
Inge
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Will » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:21 am

At the bottom right of this you will see a link taking you to the minor precepts:

http://community.palouse.net/lotus/vows.htm
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Astus » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:39 am

The 10+48 is from the Brahma Net Sutra used in East Asia. The 18+46 version is used in Tibet. The 16 precepts version is used in modern Soto Zen but it's just a derivation from the Tendai presentation of the Brahma Net Sutra's precepts.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4207
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Anders » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:57 am

Does 'tradition of nagarjuna' mean that Madhyamika would have used a different set of bodhisattva precepts?
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
User avatar
Anders
 
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Inge » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:22 am

Thank you for the links to those resources Will and Astus.

In the book "Perfect Conduct, Ascertaining the Three Vows", it is stated that in the tradition of Nagarjuna there are 18 root downfalls and 80 auxilary faults. The 80 auxilary faults are only mentioned briefly in I way that I have problems understanding.

In the links provided above there are only 46 auxilary precepts. Is it 46 or 80? This is confusing.

As to terminology, is vow the same as precept? And is it correct to say that the precepts is to not commit the root downfalls or auxilary faults?
User avatar
Inge
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Astus » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:24 am

Madhyamaka is not an order but a method. Methods don't have precepts as far as I know. What the "tradition of Nagarjuna" is is a question to me but I doubt he could have heard about the above mentioned sets of precepts.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4207
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Inge » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:27 am

Anders Honore wrote:Does 'tradition of nagarjuna' mean that Madhyamika would have used a different set of bodhisattva precepts?


Different than what?

Certainly I don't know anything about this topic, but what I have read is that in Tibet there are different Bodhisattva vows in the tradition of Nagarjuna and in the tradition of Asanga.

One place I read that there are actually many different sets of the vows.
User avatar
Inge
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Astus » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:14 am

The book itself explains what it means (on p. 64):
Gambhiradarsanaparampara (Tradition of the Profound View), compliled by Manjusri, elaborated by Nagarjuna et al., propagated by Santideva
Udaracaryaparampara (Tradition of Extremely Vast Conduct) compiled by Maitreya, elaborated by Asanga and his brother, propagated by Atisa
tradition of Padmasambhava follows that of Nagarjuna

Later it says that the 80 auxiliary vows are in the Siksasamuccaya (Compendium of Precepts), which is by Santideva thus the "tradition of Nagarjuna". The mentioned 18+46 set is in the "tradition of Asanga".

The text itself is a Nyingmapa Dzogchen work that was commented upon by Dudjom Rinpoche.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4207
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Inge » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:32 am

Astus wrote:The book itself explains what it means (on p. 64):
Gambhiradarsanaparampara (Tradition of the Profound View), compliled by Manjusri, elaborated by Nagarjuna et al., propagated by Santideva
Udaracaryaparampara (Tradition of Extremely Vast Conduct) compiled by Maitreya, elaborated by Asanga and his brother, propagated by Atisa
tradition of Padmasambhava follows that of Nagarjuna

Later it says that the 80 auxiliary vows are in the Siksasamuccaya (Compendium of Precepts), which is by Santideva thus the "tradition of Nagarjuna". The mentioned 18+46 set is in the "tradition of Asanga".

The text itself is a Nyingmapa Dzogchen work that was commented upon by Dudjom Rinpoche.


Yes, so does this mean that the vows presented in the links given by you and Will is from the tradition of Asanga?

I have tried searching for an english translation of the Siksasamuccaya but have not found one yet. Do you know if such translation is available?
User avatar
Inge
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Aemilius » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:35 pm

Inge wrote:
Astus wrote:The book itself explains what it means (on p. 64):
Gambhiradarsanaparampara (Tradition of the Profound View), compliled by Manjusri, elaborated by Nagarjuna et al., propagated by Santideva
Udaracaryaparampara (Tradition of Extremely Vast Conduct) compiled by Maitreya, elaborated by Asanga and his brother, propagated by Atisa
tradition of Padmasambhava follows that of Nagarjuna

Later it says that the 80 auxiliary vows are in the Siksasamuccaya (Compendium of Precepts), which is by Santideva thus the "tradition of Nagarjuna". The mentioned 18+46 set is in the "tradition of Asanga".

The text itself is a Nyingmapa Dzogchen work that was commented upon by Dudjom Rinpoche.


Yes, so does this mean that the vows presented in the links given by you and Will is from the tradition of Asanga?

I have tried searching for an english translation of the Siksasamuccaya but have not found one yet. Do you know if such translation is available?


I remember having read a translation of it at sometime in the past. Now I found two english translations of it, both printed in India: Bendall,C.& Rouse,W.H.D., SiksaSamuccaya; A Compendium of Buddhist Doctrine (Delhi; Motilal Banarsidass,1971) Repr. Delhi 1990
Joshi,L.M., Santideva's Siksasamuccaya-karikas (Mulagandhakuti Vihara, Sarnath, India: Maha Bodhi Society 1965)
svaha
User avatar
Aemilius
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Astus » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:35 pm

Inge wrote:Yes, so does this mean that the vows presented in the links given by you and Will is from the tradition of Asanga?

I have tried searching for an english translation of the Siksasamuccaya but have not found one yet. Do you know if such translation is available?


Yes, the 18+46 is the Asanga version. There is an old translation, also available somewhere online (don't have the link now, was in a thread a while ago).
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4207
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby ground » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:37 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Inge wrote:I have tried searching for an english translation of the Siksasamuccaya but have not found one yet. Do you know if such translation is available?


I remember having read a translation of it at sometime in the past. Now I found two english translations of it, both printed in India: Bendall,C.& Rouse,W.H.D., SiksaSamuccaya; A Compendium of Buddhist Doctrine (Delhi; Motilal Banarsidass,1971) Repr. Delhi 1990
Joshi,L.M., Santideva's Siksasamuccaya-karikas (Mulagandhakuti Vihara, Sarnath, India: Maha Bodhi Society 1965)


viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2069


Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna

Postby Will » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:36 pm

The content of the bodhisattva (ignoring tantric vows) vows (18 + 46) is the same in the Indo-Tibetan tradition. The actual ritual or procedure of taking them slightly differs between the Asanga & Nagarjuna traditions.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am


Return to Mahāyāna Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

>