Through purified mind is there compassion.

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Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:12 am

Thich Nhat Hanh got once the story about a young girl of 12, a so called boat refugee who was raped by a sea pirat. She was so overwhelmed, she jumped in the ocean and drowned her self.
Here he made this poem about which is expressing compassion. He very well shows genuine compassion is not by judging the circumstances whether or not there should be compassion, but through own purified mind.

:buddha1: Thich Nath Hanh:

Don't say that I will depart tomorrow --
even today I am still arriving.

Look deeply: every second I am arriving
to be a bud on a Spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
to fear and to hope.

The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death
of all that is alive.

I am the mayfly metamorphosing
on the surface of the river.
And I am the bird
that swoops down to swallow the mayfly.

I am the frog swimming happily
in the clear water of a pond.
And I am the grass-snake
that silently feeds itself on the frog.

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks.
And I am the arms merchant,
selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl,
refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean
after being raped by a sea pirate.
And I am the pirate,
my heart not yet capable
of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the politburo,
with plenty of power in my hands.
And I am the man who has to pay
his "debt of blood" to my people
dying slowly in a forced-labor camp.

My joy is like Spring, so warm
it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.
My pain is like a river of tears,
so vast it fills the four oceans.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and my laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart
can be left open,
the door of compassion.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby White Lotus » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:59 pm

I am the pirate. if i dont have compassion for myself, how can i have it for others.
thanks Muni, respects.
White Lotus.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:29 pm

The causes and conditions. No one is inherently bad, no one is permanent bad.

Easy one should get angry for the pirate. But in his meditation Thich Nhat Hanh saw that if he was born in the village of the pirate and raised by the same conditions, he could have been the pirate. He saw in his meditation hundreds of babies along the Gulf of Siam and social workers, educators, politicians do not do something about the situation... If you or I was born in such fishing villages among them, we as well can become pirate after 25 years, when no one is taking some responsable care.
A pirate with a heart not yet capable of seeing and loving.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Blue Garuda » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:35 pm

I guess I look at it from the other end of the telescope.

Compassion is the nature of the purified mind. Through exercising Compassion we attain a mind which is unable to be stained by negative qualities.

We must pray for the causes and conditions to give us opportunities to develop compassion, and the wisdom to recognise and cherish that mind when it arises.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:32 am

Yeshe wrote:I guess I look at it from the other end of the telescope.

Compassion is the nature of the purified mind. Through exercising Compassion we attain a mind which is unable to be stained by negative qualities.


Yes. Thich Nhat Hanh, I think explains to apply that compassionate nature through the dependency in compassionate radiance or maybe to call spontaneous responsability.
:anjali:
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:22 am

Dear friends,

and what is active compassion and what keeps pity alive?
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:00 pm

Hanzze wrote:Dear friends,

and what is active compassion and what keeps pity alive?


In pity is suffering, by compassion not.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:16 pm

Do you think that there is a kind of pity which let one think that it is compassion?
What if pity is mixed with a attitude of "I can help" or "how poor" or "how helpless", would such a mind state create an illusory kind of compassion?
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:49 pm

Hanzze wrote:Do you think that there is a kind of pity which let one think that it is compassion?
What if pity is mixed with a attitude of "I can help" or "how poor" or "how helpless", would such a mind state create an illusory kind of compassion?


Compassionate nature is not a thought. Illusory compassion is mind construction, ignorance.

:meditate:
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:34 pm

And in which way one develops compassion, practices compassion, act with compassion?
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:02 pm

Hanzze wrote:And in which way one develops compassion, practices compassion, act with compassion?


Compassion is that which seeks the greatest effect in reducing the suffering of other beings.


I made that up, but it seems to represent what I feel about it. ;)

Compassion is a 'pure' motivation IMHO, and essential for a Bodhisattva.

That is what I seek to develop, and that is what I seek to use as motivation for my actions.

If we can hold on to that motivation in all that we do, accept it as our nature, there is no possibility of being affected by a singlr negative thought.

Feeling 'pity' may be better than feeling callous indifference, but it is not really much help to others. Pity is crying at the sight of starving children; compassion is the desire to help end their suffering. One may lead to the other, but they are not the same IMHO.

I should add that I am a long way from attaining Compassion, as my guru keeps reminding me - every time I throw what seems like a complicated practice question at him, he always draws me back to the realisation that whatever I seek to do is hollow if not motivated by Compassion. He's great! :)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:47 am

...compassion is the desire to help end their suffering.

Dear Yeshe, are you sure?

Isn't abstaining from harming the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from taken what is not given the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from abusing active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from lying the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from intoxicants the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?

Isn't the reflections on vows the fist step to develop compassion.
Isn't the training on vows the practice of compassion.
Isn't the natural keeping of vows the act of compassion.

So more and more compassionated on the way till one would be able to help.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:35 am

Without understanding, compassion is impossible. When you understand the suffering of others, you do not have to force yourself to feel compassion, the door of your heart will just naturally open.
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english/wo ... _Laden.htm

Thich Nath Hanh: "Practice with right perception: Non-duality means not two, but not two means also not one. That is why we say nondual instead of one. Because if there is one, there are two. If you want to avoid two, you have to avoid one also.
Than compassion instead of judgement is in awareness". :meditate:

http://tnhaudio.org/2011/01/15/the-eye-of-compassion/
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:39 am

Hanzze wrote:
...compassion is the desire to help end their suffering.

Dear Yeshe, are you sure?

Isn't abstaining from harming the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from taken what is not given the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from abusing active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from lying the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?
Isn't abstaining from intoxicants the active compassion at the beginning, in the middle and in the end?

Isn't the reflections on vows the fist step to develop compassion.
Isn't the training on vows the practice of compassion.
Isn't the natural keeping of vows the act of compassion.

So more and more compassionated on the way till one would be able to help.


I think my definition holds, yes:
''Compassion is that which seeks the greatest effect in reducing the suffering of other beings.''

Reflecting on the vows may produce compassion; equally, it may not.

The precepts, vows etc. are in a vaccuum if not motivated by Compassion. there are other motivations for keeping moral discipline, such as fear. So keeping vows 'may' be an expression of the motivation of compassion; equally, they may not be.

For example, I can think of other reasons for abstaining from intoxicants (e.g. they give me migraines) .

I can also think of other reasons not to steal, for example fear of having a hand chopped off, which have nothing to do with compassion.

There is a path which leads to the cessation of suffering. As Muni wrote, we need to understand the nature of that suffering, develop Compassion and Bodhichitta - then the outcome will be moral discipline. The sets of vows are not Compassion, but they may be an expression of how to apply it, if approached with that motivation.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:47 pm

Dear Yeshe,

for sure, we live in a time where workers think they can build a Skyscraper. Well actually they could do it, but they should keep in mind what the effect would be if it is not built good.
But who thinks on it when already started to build on a dream.

Actually "Compassion" is in fact more dangerous not only for others. Abstain from what is not wholesome, effects everybody wholesome from the very first step even not even really practiced perfect.

When we stay at the step we are actually doing, there will walk secure, but if we are thinking on the second step we might fall.
Desire is in any cause tricky.
One might start with a strange kind of real selfish, one might start with a strange kind of compassion. It is good to stay at the first step.

Keeping precepts is the most compassionated act even when it is real "selfish". We should not forget, that there was not one disaster in the history which was not caused by strange compassion. But I don't thinks there was one disaster when somebody followed precepts even from a selfish view.

Cultivating "compassion" without focusing on reducing harming others is like working for a recycling company instead of just reducing the dirt.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Hanzze wrote:Dear Yeshe,..............


............Cultivating "compassion" without focusing on reducing harming others is like working for a recycling company instead of just reducing the dirt.


So we agree then.

''''Compassion is that which seeks the greatest effect in reducing the suffering of other beings.''

Just that! ;)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:08 pm

Ohhh agreement is not good, agreement is just a tricky kind of peace.

I guess it is always good to remember the magic three angle:

+++++++++Mindfulness++++++++
+++++++++/+++++++++\+++++++
Compassion++++++++++Wisdom

We live in a time of recycling as a believed way out of suffering. Well this kind of help grows and grows, but actually does not help. It's that we have developed a global livelihood out of it. Sometimes it is just the fear to loose his job.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:32 pm

Of course there are nondual 'practices' without object-subject-action concepts.
A right compassion isn't. As then you have also a wrong compassion. Both aren't or there is no understanding. Just like concept emptiness isn't.

Understanding means to throw your knowledge away in order to transcend. Knowledge is solid; it blocks the way of *understanding*. Water can flow, can penetrate. In that is empty compassionate nature through understanding. :meditate:

Thich Nhat Hanh and student.
Last edited by muni on Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:43 pm

Once there was a man, realizing the mountain of garbage in from of his street. He started to observe it, seeing the rats and small animals, seeing the wast rotting, seeing the dirt. He realized that this dirt is the cause of many suffering and sickness. He started to tell others that we need to care about the dirt and they suddenly agree. He made founded a foundation and started to pick up the dirt. He really take care of it and made it perfecter and perfecter. The logistic, the place where he put the dirt and on and on a real big issue grow out of the garbage. He also taught the people to collect it in the right way so that wheel of dirt can grow perfecter and perfecter. He actually grow wealth and honored and gave many a work. There are people who collect it, there are people who transport it. There are people who develop recycle able dirt. There are people who plan the places where to put the dirt, there people who care about the groundwater under the dirt. There are people who burn the dirt. Actually nearly everybody was involved in the wheel of the dirt.

There was an other man, who realized the mountain of garbage in from of his street. He started to observe it, seeing the rats and small animals, seeing the wast rotting, seeing the dirt. He realized that this dirt is the cause of many suffering and sickness. But he did not started to tell others that we need to care about the dirt first. He started to think about the origin of the dirt fist. And than he came to the conclusion, that it was originated from him. So he started to train him self to reduce his own dirt. Looked deeper and deeper and found the origin of the dirt. Meanwhile he grow perfect and does not even produces the smallest piece of dirt. Many people had watched him and also started to thing. One day, they started to ask and he used his realization also to teach.

Compassion, wisdom and mindfulness?
Hope, fear and desire?

Which way did the Buddha taught to free all beings?
Just that! :-)
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Re: Through purified mind is there compassion.

Postby muni » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:31 pm

Then there was a 3th man.
He saw so called others couldn't realize what the second man could when the first man his care is neglected for all those appaering in the second man his 'purified mind' and those their opportunity for realizing was taken as they got TB. And so he saw both stories in no separation and so started to teach them while they were still breathing, what was useful even he knew the nature of sickness and death.

A father realizing its own nature (?) and so understands there is exactly no son appaering nowhere, stops to feed him, let him play with dirt of rats, who arent.

The danger of clinging to concept emptiness.
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