Sutra Sources

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Punya
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Sutra Sources

Post by Punya »

Dear Ray Rudha

It's great to see your enthusiasm for the Sutras, but could you please add each case where you are sourcing the English translation from?

Thanks Punya.
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Ayu
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ayu »

Termes of Service wrote:...When quoting other people's work please provide a link (when applicable). Do not copy and paste an entire article rather, select and copy a few sentences that are appropriate to the discussion and paste them. Please respect the wishes of teachers/authors. It is policy here not to permit quotes (or the publishing of) tracts from restricted texts or the reproduction of restricted images, audio/video including web/podcasts. Any text or images which are considered Fair Use or not copyrighted may be used including articles which are freely given, providing they are used here for non-commercial purposes as this is an ad-free non commercial website. ...
Along these lines it is also nice style to mention sources, whenever you explain teachings. Also if you quote translations, it is necessary to mention the source. Otherwise it looks as if they are your own translations or (invented) teachings.
Ray Rudha
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ray Rudha »

What about sutra.

Sutra is supposed to spread. That is the positive aspect of sutra.

Chopping it up into pieces and linking back to a place from where it may later disappear does not accomplish the purpose of fully spreading it.
Vasana
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Vasana »

It's not really an unreasonable request.

Not all Sutras are canonical to all Mahayana traditions.

If anything, linking back to it's source can help others explore the rest of the content on the site. Even if the site is removed in the future, at least there's a reference to where it was displayed.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Rishin
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Rishin »

Ray Rudha wrote:What about sutra.

Sutra is supposed to spread. That is the positive aspect of sutra.

Chopping it up into pieces and linking back to a place from where it may later disappear does not accomplish the purpose of fully spreading it.
Neither does pasting something that might be a faulty translation.

Quoting sources is best practice for anything like this, if you are concerned about it spreading then you should be concerned about it being spread properly.
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Ayu
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ayu »

Rishin wrote: ...
Quoting sources is best practice for anything like this, if you are concerned about it spreading then you should be concerned about it being spread properly.
:good:
Ray Rudha
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ray Rudha »

Don't mind quoting sources.

Not gonna chop it up though.
Rishin
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Rishin »

Ray Rudha wrote:Don't mind quoting sources.

Not gonna chop it up though.
Proper spacing and paragraphs would be cool too. :twothumbsup:


Most of it is just a wall of text which is off putting.


Cheers.
Malcolm
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Malcolm »

Ray Rudha wrote:Don't mind quoting sources.

Not gonna chop it up though.
Uh huh, so out of your laziness, you are going to make more work for moderators?
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Techno Yogi
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Techno Yogi »

Ray Rudha wrote:Sutra is supposed to spread. That is the positive aspect of sutra.
Giving a citation does in any way prevent the spreading of sutras. This does not require you to "chop up" anything; just put the name of the sutra and the translator and maybe a link at the end of whatever it is you're posting.
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Ayu
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ayu »

Also we have to specify one fact about Sutra- and Tantralevel:

Not every sutra is a teaching of Sutralevel. The Tantrasutras are Tantra-level and may contain restricted teachings - and you need a teacher in meatspace for to learn about them properly. And even more you have to be careful with spreading translations without any authorization. Isn't it?
SpinyNorman
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by SpinyNorman »

Rishin wrote:Most of it is just a wall of text which is off putting.
It certainly is.
Ray Rudha
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ray Rudha »

What are you talking about spreading translations without any authorizations.

Don't worry, I didn't share what our "friend' here calls tantrasutras.

Sutra spreads without any authorization. There is no such thing as a sutra which requires authorization to pass on, it doesn't matter whose translation it is. Once it has been given it is given and it spreads.

That is the nature of sutra.
Norwegian
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Norwegian »

Ray Rudha,

Two things you are not understanding very well:

1. You are on a forum, as a guest (i.e., a member). Your stay here is predicated on having accepted the Terms of Service as stated by the management and site owner, and then abiding by the rules and guidelines.
2. You are using the Internet.

Concerning the first point, you should actually follow the rules of this site, and these rules clearly state that it's not acceptable to paste a giant wall of text ["Do not copy and paste an entire article rather, select and copy a few sentences that are appropriate to the discussion and paste them."]. An introductory quote, followed by a link, and some information/credit, is all you need, when it comes to larger articles, and similar - such as sutras. This means a thread is easy to read and follow. It is conducive to discussion. What you are doing, is the exact opposite.

Concerning the second point, there is something known as Netiquette. Please consider these things.

And as for posting translations wherever you feel like it, you are quite wrong. There is something known as copyright, and you cannot violate copyright law just because you feel like it, and think it's somehow OK, because it's a translation of a sutra.

Management have all the right in the world to restrict your posting ability for however long needed, if you don't respect this.
Ray Rudha
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ray Rudha »

Management can do whatever they want, and the karmic consequences are on them.

I presume they understand the nature of a sutra, if not, none of my business.

Yes, once a sutra is given out, copyright is irrelevant, and sutra should not be chopped up.

You people feel all the need in the world to abide by the rules of tantra, but feel like the rules of sutra are irrelevant.

And that is your karma, and its consequences are many.
Vasana
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Vasana »

melodramatic, much?

Ray , you seem to use the phrase 'chopping up' a lot. Have you not seen respectable masters post excerpts,quotes and specific verses from sutras to demonstrate ,share or 'spread' certain points before? Have they violated some sacred code? Posting a certain part of a sutra for discussion isn't really chopping it up and asking you to post sources for anything you do post isn't so crazy.

cue melodramatic response :alien:
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Rishin
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Rishin »

Ray Rudha wrote:Management can do whatever they want, and the karmic consequences are on them.

I presume they understand the nature of a sutra, if not, none of my business.

Yes, once a sutra is given out, copyright is irrelevant, and sutra should not be chopped up.

You people feel all the need in the world to abide by the rules of tantra, but feel like the rules of sutra are irrelevant.

And that is your karma, and its consequences are many.
You can do what you want and the consequences are on you.


So far your general demeanour hasn't painted you in a good light and I have to wonder why you act this way.
You don't come across as someone who genuinely wants to discuss and share these teachings, you appear to be here for another purpose.

So you can talk all you like about what you think should be done with a sutra and how they should be treated but ultimately the words you use and your attitude will continue to show just how much sincerity you actually have.
Last edited by Rishin on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SpinyNorman
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by SpinyNorman »

I think the recommended method is entirely appropriate for a discussion forum, ie quoting a short passage which is relevant to the discussion in hand and providing a link to the full source text.

If I want to read suttas / sutras in their entirety then I will go to the source material, either online or in book form.
Ray Rudha
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Ray Rudha »

So rishin, you feel like my demeanor is more important than the rules of sutra?

Very interesting
Rishin
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Re: Sutra Sources

Post by Rishin »

Ray Rudha wrote:So rishin, you feel like my demeanor is more important than the rules of sutra?

Very interesting

Thank you for proving my point.


Have to admit it's been a while since I've had to knock down a strawman, I honestly thought it was far too worn out a tactic for people to bother with.

Anyway all the best in your dharma journey, I genuinely hope you find some real answers that help you with your difficulties. Luckily you've found a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people here, no not me :smile: , to help you on your way.

_/|\_
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