Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

General forum on Mahayana.

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Simon E. » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:34 pm

Yup. :smile:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Simon E. » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:39 pm

odysseus wrote:
Simon E. wrote:You will learn... :namaste:

And its not actually a negative thing..its horses for courses.
If there were just one model many would be excluded.


What about the Dalai Lama? He teaches all traditions. I cannot agree, even if some Buddhists don´t like other traditions. Like Ajahn Brahmavamso said, call it "Hahayana" if you like! :smile:


No sir, HH The Dalai Lama RESPECTS all traditions. But he teaches the Vajrayana of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism.
Ajahn Brahmavamso is not even accepted by all other Theravadins..he was expelled from the group he trained with..
I am not saying this to depress you...but so you will not be too shocked later on.. :smile:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Seishin » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:45 pm

odysseus wrote:
Simon E. wrote:You will learn... :namaste:

And its not actually a negative thing..its horses for courses.
If there were just one model many would be excluded.


What about the Dalai Lama? He teaches all traditions. I cannot agree, even if some Buddhists don´t like other traditions. Like Ajahn Brahmavamso said, call it "Hahayana" if you like! :smile:


For those who follow the Mahayana branch we have a teaching called Upaya (skillful means) which essentially teaches us that there are different ways for good reason, in that we are all different and "one way" will mean some miss the boat. As far as I'm aware, the Dalai Lama does not "teach" all traditions but learns from and has respect for all, including non-buddhist religions. I suspect this is what you are trying to say :shrug:

Gassho,
Seishin
User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby odysseus » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:56 pm

Well, in order to not get entangled, I´ll just follow the Dalai Lamas example and respect all traditions. Personally, I see no division among Buddhists in general. I´m sure we agree when the water starts to boil.

By the way, there is a video with the Dalai Lama where he lectures about the four noble truths.

On the edge, will this be called a schism in the Sangha? Something very controversial as we know it (offense)...

:cheers:
User avatar
odysseus
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Kunga » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:20 pm

Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Ajahn Brahm is not a 'disgraced' teacher by any stretch of the imagination. He decided to ordain Bhikkhunis, which caused a stir with the patriarchs of the Thai sangha. I admire him for having had the balls to do it. However, the Sri Lankans have been doing this for years; the Thais don't accept this either - so what? To try and cast aspersions on a very senior monk whom many regard as accomplished in jhana meditation is very negative.
Kunga
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:58 am
Location: Nepal

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby ball-of-string » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:15 pm

Simon E. wrote:And the members of Dhamma Wheel are fairly typical of Theravadins in general.


I don't want to get off topic, but that is not my experience at all. Comparing the people I meet and interactions I have at a Theravada temple or lay organization versus my online interactions, there is a lot of discrepancy. Not limited to Dhammawheel but seems to be true for most of the Buddhist chat forums: the vocal majority falls into one of two categories. Many people do not have a daily practice of any kind, and some of the people have rather extreme daily practices. Neither of these is typical of Theravadins in general.
ball-of-string
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:05 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Zhen Li » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:50 pm

Kunga wrote:Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Śrāvakayāna outer conduct is not always necessarily Hīnayāna.
:anjali:
User avatar
Zhen Li
 
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Canada

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Malcolm » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:53 pm

Kunga wrote:Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Ajahn Brahm is not a 'disgraced' teacher by any stretch of the imagination. He decided to ordain Bhikkhunis, which caused a stir with the patriarchs of the Thai sangha. I admire him for having had the balls to do it. However, the Sri Lankans have been doing this for years; the Thais don't accept this either - so what? To try and cast aspersions on a very senior monk whom many regard as accomplished in jhana meditation is very negative.


Gorampa Sonam Senge wouldn't buy it. This is why he argued against giving Gelongma ordinations in Tibet, i.e. the lineage was never brought to Tibet.

Just sayin...
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12735
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Kunga » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Kunga wrote:Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Ajahn Brahm is not a 'disgraced' teacher by any stretch of the imagination. He decided to ordain Bhikkhunis, which caused a stir with the patriarchs of the Thai sangha. I admire him for having had the balls to do it. However, the Sri Lankans have been doing this for years; the Thais don't accept this either - so what? To try and cast aspersions on a very senior monk whom many regard as accomplished in jhana meditation is very negative.


Gorampa Sonam Senge wouldn't buy it. This is why he argued against giving Gelongma ordinations in Tibet, i.e. the lineage was never brought to Tibet.

Just sayin...

Yeah, I'm just getting woolly in my old age.
Kunga
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:58 am
Location: Nepal

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Simon E. » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:59 pm

Kunga wrote:Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Ajahn Brahm is not a 'disgraced' teacher by any stretch of the imagination. He decided to ordain Bhikkhunis, which caused a stir with the patriarchs of the Thai sangha. I admire him for having had the balls to do it. However, the Sri Lankans have been doing this for years; the Thais don't accept this either - so what? To try and cast aspersions on a very senior monk whom many regard as accomplished in jhana meditation is very negative.

Did I cast aspersions ? I pointed out that he has been expelled by the order of monks he was ordained into.
That is a simple fact.
No one mentioned or implied disgrace. As a matter of fact I admire his actions too.
I think the ordained sangha is increasingly an anachronism, but as long as it exists I think it should encourage gender parity.
The context for those remarks was in reply to a post which seemed to indicate an unrealistic expectation of pan -Buddhist harmony.
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Kunga » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:03 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Kunga wrote:Tibetans teach all 3 yanas, and ideally should practice all 3 - i.e., keep the outer conduct of the hinayana, possess the motivation of Mahayana to achieve buddahood to free sentient beings, and hold the view / practice the methods as contained in Vajrayana.

Ajahn Brahm is not a 'disgraced' teacher by any stretch of the imagination. He decided to ordain Bhikkhunis, which caused a stir with the patriarchs of the Thai sangha. I admire him for having had the balls to do it. However, the Sri Lankans have been doing this for years; the Thais don't accept this either - so what? To try and cast aspersions on a very senior monk whom many regard as accomplished in jhana meditation is very negative.

Did I cast aspersions ? I pointed out that he has been expelled by the order of monks he was ordained into.
That is a simple fact.
No one mentioned or implied disgrace. As a matter of fact I admire his actions too.
I think the ordained sangha is increasingly an anachronism, but as long as it exists I think it should encourage gender parity.
The context for those remarks was in reply to a post which seemed to indicate an unrealistic expectation of pan -Buddhist harmony.

Then apologies, I misread the tone of your post.

Interesting summary by Ajahn B here (which you may have already read): http://sujato.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/ ... mmunicated

:namaste:
Kunga
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:58 am
Location: Nepal

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby Simon E. » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:43 pm

I should have been clearer Kunga..
No I have not read that. Thank you.


:namaste:
Simon E.
 
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why theravada reject mahayana sutra

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:04 am

smcj wrote:
Hm, thanks for the compliment but I´m still a basic learner. In my understanding, "true Buddhists" don´t have this separation between traditions (never been on Dhamma Wheel).

Dharma Wheel and Dhamma Wheel are owned by the same guy. He gave us two different sandboxes to play in so the children wouldn't fight with each other. That way we can respect each other at a distance without having to actively irritate each other. It's working out well.

:group:

I often recommend this essay: Tolerance and Diversity by Bhikkhu Bodhi, a prominent Theravada Monk, who is responsible for a number of modern translations of the Pali Canon: http://wisdompubs.org/author/bhikkhu-bodhi

His observations could be as easily applied to different Buddhist schools as to Buddhist vs. non-Buddhist.
In approaching diversity he notes two extremes:
The first extreme is a retreat into fundamentalism, the adoption of an aggressive affirmation of one's own beliefs coupled with a proselytizing zeal toward those who still stand outside the chosen circle of one's co-religionists. ...

For Buddhists the more alluring alternative is the second extreme. This extreme, which purchases tolerance at the price of integrity, might be called the thesis of spiritual universalism: the view that all the great religions, at their core, espouse essentially the same truth, clothed merely in different modes of expression. ...

The problem with this second extreme, applied either within or without Buddhism, is that it runs the risk of either reducing everything to a lowest common denominator, or denigrating some specific concepts or practices of the various schools which may actually be very effective.

Each school has evolved particular, tested, concepts, flavours, and approaches. Some of these may only make sense in their own context. I feel that it is important to be aware that there are differences, but to be tolerant of them. That's how I understand the Dalai Lama's position.

:anjali:
Mike
mikenz66
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:10 am
Location: New Zealand

Previous

Return to Mahāyāna Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 15 guests

>