All things are Zen.

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All things are Zen.

Postby White Lotus » Wed May 05, 2010 6:41 pm

if all things are zen, then 'nothing' is zen, which is absolutely correct.

if all things are zen, then drinking a cup of tea is drinking a cup of tea,

drinking a cup of tea is enlightenment,

drinking a cup of tea is not enlightenment.

all beings are fully enlightened buddhas,

not all beings are buddhas, not all beings are enlightened.

zen death, zen life, zen flesh, zen bones.

so... what is it?

are any of these statements correct or false?

i have no idea.

is no idea correct or false?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Wed May 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Hi White Lotus,

Are you reaching for Madhyamaka in a roundabout way? If so, perhaps this will help. Wikipedia can be a little dodgy, but this looks okay. Madhyamaka at Wiki

Also, I found a website that you might enjoy. The author of the site even gives out free dharma books. You seem to have an interest in Zen, and this site looks like it's geared towards Zen Buddhism. Click: The Middle Way (Commentaries on Meditation, Zen, Buddhism, and Mindfulness).

Kind wishes,
Laura
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby plwk » Thu May 06, 2010 12:31 am

All things are Zen.

Why of course...
Shampoo, soap, spa, sitting cushion, menu, garden... :rolleye:
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Dexing » Thu May 06, 2010 2:39 am

White Lotus wrote:if all things are zen, then 'nothing' is zen, which is absolutely correct.

if all things are zen, then drinking a cup of tea is drinking a cup of tea,

drinking a cup of tea is enlightenment,

drinking a cup of tea is not enlightenment.

all beings are fully enlightened buddhas,

not all beings are buddhas, not all beings are enlightened.

zen death, zen life, zen flesh, zen bones.

so... what is it?

are any of these statements correct or false?

i have no idea.

is no idea correct or false?


Only that?

How much is it just speech? How much is just thinking? And how much is it attainment?

Too many words. Just do it.

:namaste:
nopalabhyate...
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu May 06, 2010 3:26 pm

White Lotus wrote:if all things are zen, then 'nothing' is zen, which is absolutely correct.

if all things are zen, then drinking a cup of tea is drinking a cup of tea,

drinking a cup of tea is enlightenment,

drinking a cup of tea is not enlightenment.

all beings are fully enlightened buddhas,

not all beings are buddhas, not all beings are enlightened.

zen death, zen life, zen flesh, zen bones.

so... what is it?

are any of these statements correct or false?

i have no idea.

is no idea correct or false?


You might like the heart sutra audio talks found at:

http://www.everydayzen.org/index.php?op ... &Itemid=27

Good talks and explications of some key zen concepts and scriptures.
Ride the horse in the direction its going.

~Werner Erhard
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby White Lotus » Thu May 06, 2010 6:50 pm

please note, i have said it before and i will say it again! i am not enlightened.

Only that?... how about 'this'! after all that is this, this is that.

im in this boat...
How much is it just speech? How much is just thinking? And how much is it attainment?

i guess you can know thoroughly what enlightenment is without actually realizing it!

Too many words. Just do it.


im doing it, and i know that typing at this keyboard right now is enlightenment. but i cannot attach to enlightenment.

best wishes, White Lotus.

Laura... look within your mind right now, without thinking, this is the madyamakan emptiness. make a thought within your mind. this is tathata.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu May 06, 2010 11:02 pm

Laura... look within your mind right now, without thinking, this is the madyamakan emptiness. make a thought within your mind. this is tathata.


Hi White Lotus,

I'm sorry, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about. My thoughts aren't tathata. My thoughts a part of the skandhas and they are defiled and afflicted. Are you familiar with the skandhas or aggregates? I would kindly recommend that you explore dependent origination a little. And I would be happy to provide resources for you if you like.

If you or I were to say that our thoughts are those of a tathagata, we would be making quite a declaration! :)

'Madyamakan emptiness' is how emptiness is explained avoiding both nihilism and eternalism.


Kindly,
Laura
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby White Lotus » Fri May 07, 2010 7:37 pm

:namaste: Noble Laura,

every form that arises is 'emptiness'. it is tathata. everything is tathata.
typing at this computer right now is tathata. you are the mind of the buddha, it is the mind of the buddha reading this post.

emptiness = mind = self = form. forms are emptiness how could they not be tathata?

your thoughts are those of a tathagata. at least thats how i see it! how could your mind be any different. the mind is the mind, it has no differences.

just look inside your mind next time you are typing, feel it, without thinking, then look at the computer screen. is there any difference? the sensation is the same isnt it. the emptiness of self is the emptiness of the computer screen.

anyone can see this, we all have buddha mind, buddha self and buddha form regardless of appearances and personal expression. just give it a try! look inside your mind, or inside your self... i bet the feeling you get looking at your self is the same you get looking at the computer screen. its normal feeling, nothing special.

dont worry about how emptiness is explained. just feel it. feel your 'self' or your own mind, or the computer screen. they are all empty. its nothing profound, its just 'this' normal mind we have, this normal self and this normal computer screen.

with respect, White Lotus.

take the numbers
one, two, three,
all different, but all
feel the same.
empty!

how does one feel?
feel it, how does two feel?
feel it. is there any difference.
only emptiness.
this is the feeling of emptiness
and its normal.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sat May 08, 2010 7:13 pm

Hi White Lotus,

I am, at this moment, stumbling around in conventional reality called samsara. Though resting in emptiness would be a far better condition to establish, I'm still just an ordinary person, full of flaws and obscurations. So I practice as much as I'm able, chugging along and trying to do some good along the way.

But I thank you for your thoughts :)
I wish you success in your Buddhist studies.

Best wishes,
Laura
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby White Lotus » Sun May 09, 2010 4:56 pm

Chug Chug, i love Thomas the Tank Engine, hes a fictional train that kids love in England. He always gets where hes going, and hes a really nice train. this 'normal' laura and this 'normal' white lotus. both chugging! (and both extraordinary in their own way).

toot, toot!

see normal mind.
all of my practice and development in
buddhism has been to see normal mind
just as it is.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
White Lotus
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon May 10, 2010 5:33 am

White Lotus wrote:Chug Chug, i love Thomas the Tank Engine, hes a fictional train that kids love in England. He always gets where hes going, and hes a really nice train. this 'normal' laura and this 'normal' white lotus. both chugging! (and both extraordinary in their own way).

toot, toot!

see normal mind.
all of my practice and development in
buddhism has been to see normal mind
just as it is.


A perfect response.
Just as it is :)

:namaste:
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Luke » Tue May 11, 2010 8:29 pm

Exploring the mind and exploring Buddhism can indeed be very exciting. However, we should be careful of declaring that we have understood and experienced emptiness and the true nature of mind because this is very difficult to verify without a teacher.

Building up our own personal theories about Buddhism can also be interesting, but we have to be careful that we are not deviating too far from the Buddhist tradition.

I can't say very much about Zen, but I think the main point here is that everything we experience and encounter is influenced by our minds and by our karma.

Moving from a materialistic viewpoint to a Buddhist one is an exciting transition.

:anjali:
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue May 11, 2010 8:34 pm

White Lotus wrote:please note, i have said it before and i will say it again! i am not enlightened.


And yet you are not not enlightened either, both or neither, quoth I.
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Re: All things are Zen.

Postby LastLegend » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:44 am

White Lotus wrote:if all things are zen, then 'nothing' is zen, which is absolutely correct.

if all things are zen, then drinking a cup of tea is drinking a cup of tea,

drinking a cup of tea is enlightenment,

drinking a cup of tea is not enlightenment.

all beings are fully enlightened buddhas,

not all beings are buddhas, not all beings are enlightened.

zen death, zen life, zen flesh, zen bones.

so... what is it?

are any of these statements correct or false?

i have no idea.

is no idea correct or false?


:coffee:
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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