Analysis and Existence.

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Analysis and Existence.

Postby White Lotus » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:16 pm

What is the purpose of analysis, if there are so many different readings of any given situation. Can analysis find any kind of truth, is not every subjectivity a form of objective reality.

does analysis require 'this is' and 'this is not', and may there not be disagreement on what is and is not?

White Lotus. xxx
:roll:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Analysis and Existence.

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:17 pm

White Lotus wrote:What is the purpose of analysis, if there are so many different readings of any given situation. Can analysis find any kind of truth, is not every subjectivity a form of objective reality.

does analysis require 'this is' and 'this is not', and may there not be disagreement on what is and is not?

White Lotus. xxx
:roll:



If we spend any time at all trying to understand the 4NT I guess we are already analysing.

However, like most things, I guess it is a matter of balance.

For example, we may read or receive a teaching, try to make progress through meditation in verifying it, and then analyse our experiences, perhaps with the help of a guru.

If we don't analyse at all, how can we know we are making progress? If we spend too much time analysing, we may make none, LOL :).

A successful company director once told me he never spent time analysing details. He said that it was necessary (pardon the wording) to take the 'anal' out of 'analysis'.

Access to a guru is most helpful, in helping us to identify our progress, and what is worthy of focus to help make progress. So doing some of the analysis for us.

However, IMHO, 'what is' and 'what is not' can only come from our own practice leading to a conviction rather than a 'view'. And with a conviction derived from personal experience, the 'views' of others are unimportant - unless they are teaching you: I like the Japanese word 'Sensei' which I think is loosely translated as 'one who has gone before'.

Personal 'reality' is something I see as unique to an individual. There are many 'views' such as Yogacara or Madhyamaka Prasangika, but only though our meditation and experience can we form a 'reality'.

Having a conviction and an acepted 'reality' should we cling to it? If it is virtuous and useful to our path, I think it's OK. :)

Interesting question.
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Re: Analysis and Existence.

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:49 pm

:good:
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Re: Analysis and Existence.

Postby kirtu » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:24 pm

White Lotus wrote:What is the purpose of analysis, if there are so many different readings of any given situation. Can analysis find any kind of truth, is not every subjectivity a form of objective reality.


The purpose of analysis is to investigate truth for oneself whereby one actually attains the Path of Seeing (1st bhumi). Analysis is actually to cut away delusion or to refine one's spiritual view until one actually attains the stage of an Arya Bodhisattva.

Analysis can't actually find any kind of truth (of course this depends on what you mean by truth). For example not all people can follow argumentation and proof (analysis) for math. So analysis can't be used to discover all truth because people have different capacities.

However spiritual analysis is different and any level of spiritual analysis will have a positive result even though some views are more refined (and thus truer) than others. But all spiritual analysis is ultimately liberative.

Kirt
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Re: Analysis and Existence.

Postby catmoon » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:18 am

My current teacher is not analytical at all, but is very kind and warm, and is very good at guiding meditations to generate kindness warmth and compassion.
This is a really happy situation because the teaching nicely balances my tendency to pursue any analysis possible, to the exclusion of all else. So a teacher with a different approach can be a very good thing.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Analysis and Existence.

Postby White Lotus » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:48 pm

Yeshe said:
I like the Japanese word 'Sensei' which I think is loosely translated as 'one who has gone before'.

this would indicate that there is a consitant pathway, that is duplicated or transmitted. the passing on of enlightenment. it would indicate that through 'guided'(?) analysis and practice a fundamental experience can be shared.
in this case enlightenment.

Yeshe said:
Personal 'reality' is something I see as unique to an individual. There are many 'views' such as Yogacara or Madhyamaka Prasangika, but only though our meditation and experience can we form a 'reality'.

i guess that reality is a bit like buddhas field... there are many different coloured flowers and creatures in the field. the closer one looks the more one finds.

Yeshe said:
Having a conviction and an acepted 'reality' should we cling to it? If it is virtuous and useful to our path, I think it's OK.

i would say that clinging to some degree is natural, but that there should be a gentle holding, rather than a fierce clinging. this way, when something more profound offers itself, we are able to relinquish a baby vehicle for a higher vehicle. this is like relinquishing cherished views and notions for purer views and notions. and i guess the purpose of analysis is to purify our views and practices.

Kirtu said:
However spiritual analysis is different and any level of spiritual analysis will have a positive result even though some views are more refined (and thus truer) than others. But all spiritual analysis is ultimately liberative.

it would seem however that, not all practice is liberative in the short term. look at nagarjunas disciple building and pulling down towers for his msater... poor chap!

love, white lotus. x :)
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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