Martial Arts Talk

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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:23 pm

Again... Kali/Escrima is a complete martial art, this particular system of KNIFE FIGHTING (I never bothered to learn the name, it was right at the start of my martial arts career and I was just anxious to learn, I don't even know if it has a name) is extraordinarily effective but limited to you having a (particular type) of knife (our knife of choice was the EK commando dagger since it had a fantastic cutting edge, a good point, a hilt and could be used with forward and back grip by left and right handers). It is one of the few techinques that I have seen capable of stopping an abaniko sequence.

I repeat: it is not a martial art, it is purely a knife fighting method that is fast and easy to learn and "too" effective.
And what's with this?
...mysterious independently developed systems that derive from Kali
As if escrima did not develop out of traditional Kali. It changed in response to the introduction of weapons and techniques by invading forces from China, Spain, etc... That is what makes Kali so effective, it's capacity to change according to circumstance, otherwise you may as well go of and learn Iaido or some of those bizarre weapons they have in Kalari Payat.
Kalari-weapons.jpg
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Mr. G » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Yes, of course Kali is evolving, however that's why the emphasis is on a single knife which is one of the primary tool for tactical units.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Seishin » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:52 pm

Jikan wrote:Back to the walking stick issue from above.

I believe it was Blue Garuda who suggested I use a jo stick or something analogous to that as a cane. Well, I'm not too far removed from needing to walk with a cane due to arthritis and other issues. Like it or not, I have to admit that my appearance would not be made any goofier than it already is if I walked the earth like Gandalf with a stick taller than me. No one would look twice. *I'm from Portland.*

:namaste:


Back when I was training kung fu, one of the official weapings was a metal fan. Some of the moves seemed a bit outlandish to me, but when a metal fan is in it's closed position it bloody hurts! :tongue: A walking cane was another weapon. But we were also taught how to defend ourselves with our jumpers, keys, fist full of change etc. Not kung-fu-movie-type take down the bad guys with a jacket, no no, just simple evading attack to be able to run like hell. I'm no where near trained as some of the others who have been posting on this thread, but these basics stuck with me and I've succesfully used self defence twice now. If I hadn't had trained it would have been a completely different story.

Gassho,
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:12 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Again... Kali/Escrima is a complete martial art, this particular system of KNIFE FIGHTING (I never bothered to learn the name, it was right at the start of my martial arts career and I was just anxious to learn, I don't even know if it has a name) is extraordinarily effective but limited to you having a (particular type) of knife (our knife of choice was the EK commando dagger since it had a fantastic cutting edge, a good point, a hilt and could be used with forward and back grip by left and right handers). It is one of the few techinques that I have seen capable of stopping an abaniko sequence.

I repeat: it is not a martial art, it is purely a knife fighting method that is fast and easy to learn and "too" effective.
And what's with this?
...mysterious independently developed systems that derive from Kali
As if escrima did not develop out of traditional Kali. It changed in response to the introduction of weapons and techniques by invading forces from China, Spain, etc... That is what makes Kali so effective, it's capacity to change according to circumstance, otherwise you may as well go of and learn Iaido or some of those bizarre weapons they have in Kalari Payat.
Kalari-weapons.jpg


I'm with you until the end.

Iaido or Iaijutsu is the art of drawing the sword and cutting. It was never intended for street knife attacks so is irrelevant to the 'knife' discussion, albeit that it is very powerful. The last head of the school with which I studied was possibly the last man to act as kaishaku in a ritual suicidal beheading 'seppuku'. Given any long weapon - sword, stick etc, the techniques are very applicable to modern fighting.

I would, however, also argue that Kalari is much more than the sum of its weapons. A brief encounter with a Ponthi-wielding exponent in training may well be useful on the street when a machette or similar weapon is used. In escrima, would a dozen of you lie down on the floor (in random places and in random positions) in a hall and allow a blindfold exponent with a ponthi find and split the water melon you are holding ?

I'm not at all sure that I would be confident in completely debunking the Indian idea that all Chinese and Japanese martial arts derived from Kalari or at least were enhanced by it.
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:19 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:I would, however, also argue that Kalari is much more than the sum of its weapons. A brief encounter with a Ponthi-wielding exponent in training may well be useful on the street when a machette or similar weapon is used.
I was thinking more along the lines of the urumi (cf above posted picture) and other equally bizarre weapons (deer horn daggers, tridents, etc...) that one would never encounter in an everyday brawl.
Ornamental katara.jpg
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Jikan » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:53 pm

bump.

any thoughts on arnis as a system?
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby BuddhaSoup » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:41 am

Here's my contribution to Martial Arts talk....I'm at 1:27 of the video, in the lower right hand corner. Orange tie.

http://youtu.be/MjXCvnAmvHE

No knives involved ( I am sitting on my ass most of the event), but I have judged pro events with Sal D'Amato, who is a three time Eskrima US national champion.
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Re: Buddhism and Martial Arts

Postby Namgyal » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:10 am

gregkavarnos wrote:You obviously have never trained in Muay Thai.

In her youth, my missus was a champion prizefighter back in Thailand (against men more often than not). One day she was ambushed by a gang armed with machetes and even though they cut numerous pieces out of her she still fought them off and escaped, so I would say that the effectiveness of any technique really depends on the mentality of the individual. Professional Muay Thai fighters train extremely hard, and they have to regularly put their skills to the test in the ring, where death or crippling injury is fairly common, however what really makes a great Muay Thai boxer is more than just skill or physical toughness, it is strength of mind, and the best (like the legendary Buakaw) are very often devout Buddhists.
Image
I have great respect for Aikido, but my own observation is that in order for it to be effective one has to be very, very good at it, in this respect it is the same as Taichi; it is potentially very effective but it takes a lifetime to learn, and in the West it is mostly practised by people who would otherwise be studying yoga.
Lastly, instead of batons or walking sticks, one should consider the 'tactical umbrella' :tongue:
http://real-self-defense.com/unbreakable-umbrella/
:namaste:
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:32 pm

...however what really makes a great Muay Thai boxer is more than just skill or physical toughness, it is strength of mind, and the best (like the legendary Buakaw) are very often devout Buddhists.
Like this guy here (he's my hero!)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:05 pm

:rolling:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Namgyal » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 pm

Chungdrag Dorje (Steven Seagal) actually has a very good sense of humour and I've no doubt that he would laugh at this video (though perhaps not at the monk killing/Dalai Lama striking parts). I've seen every single one of his movies and screen appearances (admittedly a couple were rough) and I can confirm that his entire acting career has been 'tongue-in-cheek'.
:namaste:
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:24 pm

Did you miss the bit of his career that invloved sexual harassment and white slavery? That was a bit of a rough patch, thankfully (for him) he manged to buy his way out of it.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Namgyal » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:39 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Like this guy here (he's my hero!)

Thankyou for this excellent and moving film about Kru Bah. Here is another Muay Thai movie link... (Buakaw 0:17:30 !!!)
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Re: Martial Arts Talk

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:40 pm

Yes, this is a great one, classic "period" martial arts flick!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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