Spleen Qi Deficiency

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Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Epistemes » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:13 pm

Does TM have a parallel diagnosis for Spleen Qi Deficiency as in Traditional Chinese Medicine? What is it called?
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Malcolm » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:10 pm

Epistemes wrote:Does TM have a parallel diagnosis for Spleen Qi Deficiency as in Traditional Chinese Medicine? What is it called?


Not really, different theory.

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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Epistemes » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:00 pm

Tara,

Could you please move this topic to the Lounge as it has nothing to do with TM?


From what I know of Spleen Qi Deficiency, the Spleen is weakened by cold and damp foods, e.g., dairy, gluten-based foods, salads, etc. Does this mean that these foods must be avoided entirely for the rest of one's life? Or can these foods still be consumed every so often? In short, is this type of Deficiency workable and ultimately "curable"?

If there is anyone with an ayurvedic background who may want to shed some light on this, as well, then feel free, but I know we have some persons here with a background in Traditional Chinese Medicine.
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby dakini_boi » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:15 pm

Couldn't you say that weak jatharagni would be the Ayurvedic equivalent of spleen qi deficiency? It's not an exact match, but I think that would probably be the closest thing.

I have more to say about spleen qi deficiency, but I will wait until the topic has been moved. :rules:
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Virgo » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:16 pm

dakini_boi wrote:I have more to say about spleen qi deficiency, but I will wait until the topic has been moved. :rules:

Well it's going to be moved anyway, since the OP asked for it.

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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Tara » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:07 am

Epistemes wrote:Tara,

Could you please move this topic to the Lounge as it has nothing to do with TM?


Hi Epistemes,

Topic moved to Lounge as per your request.

Regards,
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Malcolm » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:10 pm

dakini_boi wrote:Couldn't you say that weak jatharagni would be the Ayurvedic equivalent of spleen qi deficiency? It's not an exact match, but I think that would probably be the closest thing.

I have more to say about spleen qi deficiency, but I will wait until the topic has been moved. :rules:



In Tibetan Medicine the spleen is the spleen, located on the left side of the body, above the pancreas. These are the types of spleen illnesses we identify explicitly as "spleen" illnesses: hot spleen illness, blood bloating, wind spleen, phlegm spleen, and swollen.

Weak stomach heat i.e. jaṭaragni is not related to the spleen itself in either Tibetan Medicine or Ayurveda. However, your intuition is good.

It seems that in Chinese medicine the spleen means the liver, and the liver means the spleen. The liver is indeed responsible for transformation and nourishing blood and muscles in Tibean Medicine. So in my opinion when Chinese medicine is talking about spleen deficiencies we would understand this as a problem with the liver's ability to process nutrients. Our approach would be to restore liver heat, and then one can eat whatever one likes without avoiding anything. The possible approach to this would be to do a round of Pancakarma or failing that, a seasonal cleanse to remove lymphatic blockages, cleanse the biliary pathways, and cleanse the intestines of excess mucous which is blocking the uptake of nutrients in general.

This is essentially a cold liver disease from a Tibetan Medical POV.
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:01 pm

Namdrol wrote:Weak stomach heat i.e. jaṭaragni is not related to the spleen itself in either Tibetan Medicine or Ayurveda.


What jatharagni and spleen qi have in common is they are both seen as the essential energy responsible for digesting food, in their respective systems.

Generally, when referring to the spleen in TCM, the stomach is also implied - because they are paired organs according to the elements (both are earth element). Furthermore, the Chinese concept of "spleen" includes the pancreas (because of role in blood sugar regulation), and some people even think the Chinese word for spleen, pi, originally referred to the pancreas itself - but was mistranslated at some point. So, the term "spleen qi deficiency" could be thought of as a weakness of the spleen/pancreas and stomach - which would manifest mainly as fatigue and poor digestion. If the deficiency is extreme, it will also manifest with signs of coldness - the diagnosis in this case would be spleen yang deficiency - which is a closer match to weak jatharagni (digestive fire). In Ayurveda, the digestive process is associated with the element of fire, whereas in TCM, the element is earth - but, according to the generative cycle of elements in TCM, fire generates earth, so these are not inconsistent - and the spleen qi depends on the spleen yang (warming energy of the spleen) in order to function.

So, back to the original question. . .
Epistemes wrote:From what I know of Spleen Qi Deficiency, the Spleen is weakened by cold and damp foods, e.g., dairy, gluten-based foods, salads, etc. Does this mean that these foods must be avoided entirely for the rest of one's life? Or can these foods still be consumed every so often? In short, is this type of Deficiency workable and ultimately "curable"?


Spleen qi deficiency is definitely curable, and the dietary modifications do not usually have to be permanent. But there might be dietary sensitivities involved to foods that are best avoided permanently - many find this with gluten or dairy. Warm foods and blended foods are best, keeping sweet foods at a minimum.

Another really important factor in maintaining healthy spleen qi is minimizing stress. In TCM terms, stress causes the liver qi to stagnate. This impairs the functioning of all systems somewhat, but the most obvious system affected is usually digestion. This is because the wood element (liver/gallbladder), when in excess (stagnation is an excess pattern) will overact on the earth element and weaken it.
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby Epistemes » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:29 pm

dakini_boi wrote:So, the term "spleen qi deficiency" could be thought of as a weakness of the spleen/pancreas and stomach - which would manifest mainly as fatigue and poor digestion.


Does this eliminate Namdrol's suggestion that this is probably a cold liver ailment as per TM?

But there might be dietary sensitivities involved to foods that are best avoided permanently - many find this with gluten or dairy. Warm foods and blended foods are best, keeping sweet foods at a minimum.


Is there any way to know for sure which individuals should avoid these "dietary sensitivities"?

Another really important factor in maintaining healthy spleen qi is minimizing stress. In TCM terms, stress causes the liver qi to stagnate. This impairs the functioning of all systems somewhat, but the most obvious system affected is usually digestion. This is because the wood element (liver/gallbladder), when in excess (stagnation is an excess pattern) will overact on the earth element and weaken it.


What does TCM recommend for stress relief?
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Re: Spleen Qi Deficiency

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:51 pm

Epistemes wrote:Does this eliminate Namdrol's suggestion that this is probably a cold liver ailment as per TM?


I don't know enough about TM to say, but I would assume Namdrol is correct. I think in Ayurveda the liver/gallbladder is the source of bile/ pitta dosha, which is the heat required for digestion. Someone could confirm or correct me, please.

Epistemes wrote:Is there any way to know for sure which individuals should avoid these "dietary sensitivities"?


The best way is usually to eliminate all foods which commonly cause sensitivities - gluten, dairy, sugar, eggs, soy - for 2 weeks. Then reintroduce one at a time to see if symptoms get worse. Often over time, a typical modern diet + medical drugs (especially antibiotics) + environmental toxicity + stress, will produce some level of chronic inflammation in the intestines. This will exacerbate food sensitivities. Look up leaky gut syndrome. This very common, to one extent or another. Once the inflammation has been removed (through sustained healing diet + herbs/supplements), often one can tolerate some of those sensitive foods in moderation.

Epistemes wrote:What does TCM recommend for stress relief?


acupuncture, qi gong, meditation, herbs. Healthy processing of emotions. Acupuncture is really great for stress, and for harmonizing wood and earth. Also, avoid situations and environments which cause you stress.
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