So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

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So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby himalayanspirit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:43 am

I opened a thread about the effects of a drug I read about and how the mental states it leads to are explained in Buddhism. And what I get is a bunch of ex-hippies advocating the use of drugs, narcotics, psychedelics etc? LOL

I guess I should just stick to taking advice from non-westerner Buddhists from now on. I dont want to be misguided by an former hippy who took up drugs, had lots of sex, and accumulated heavy karma, telling me that you can reach the first two Jhanas by taking LSD.

Personally, I feel that drugs are bad for human beings just like how cigarettes and alcohol are bad (both are listed as "drugs" anyway). You should first introspect why people take drugs to begin with. Here in India, people in the rural areas usually take up alcohol and become addicts to ease themselves out of some trauma or failure or depression. It gives temporary relief. But they end up becoming nuisance to the society, sometimes beating wives, creating a scene in public etc etc.

The underlying reason is to hide from "reality". People get addicted to anything that takes them away from suffering/samsara instantly. Even hallucinations will do, mental disorders will do, retardation will do. I have seen drug addicts with dark eyes, weak strength, and inability to behave in a normal fashion. Please dont tell me that we can experience Buddhism by taking LSD or eating mushrooms. Thats an insult to the great Dharma. I understand that what I am claiming to be "reality" here is itself "dream-like" according to Buddhism. Taking drugs creates even more hallucinations and leads to fabrications in this already "dream-state". So it can certainly not be cool. It harms human beings. It is criminal.

Why do people take drugs? For pleasure, fun, attachment, desire, or probably to run away from the suffering of this world. Same applies to people who start playing world of warcraft day and night.


I guess all Buddhists should denounce drug abuse. Already conventional medicines dont heal without giving side-effects to the body, but tinkering with your mind and nervous system is worse.

A drug-addict who thinks he can fly after taking LSD, because it appears more real than 'real world, cannot even begin to compare with Bodhisattvas, Arhats, Aryas or even normal householder who works diligently. Arhat Mogallana could probably fly for real and that ability comes through hard work, not taking tablets or injecting drugs.

When I read the other thread, I was a bit depressed and was almost in the verge of losing faith (I am not initiated into any sect but have developed some faith and interest in Buddhism in some years) that Buddhism only probably attracts hippies, druggies and losers. But now I am somewhat relieved to regain the faith that the mental states gained by taking mushrooms, LSD or other drugs are nothing but a great illusion and the taker opens gateways for hell by doing so. I was almost into thinking that what the past Buddhists so vividly described in Sutras and Sastras was probably of the same nature as the Shaman who described Spirit-journey by taking Ayahuasca; and therefore Buddhism is probably not any useful in understanding reality or eliminating suffering. But I started reading about the Eastern Buddhists and have finally regained my faith.

Namo Amitabhaya.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby catmoon » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:53 am

This forum caters to a broad spectrum of beliefs. Not the broadest, but pretty broad. Try this exercise.

Go to the index page and go through all the forums, using the "mark posts as read" function in each one. Then come back the next day and browse using the "read new posts" function. This will give you an overview of what we are about as a group. You will find academics quietly discussing the sutras, people building a Buddhism based on faith, others building on practicality, some working with rules and regulations, and still others working with formal reason and logic. And as you will have noticed, we have some very high-volume posters who appear to represent the board simply because they post a lot of stuff. But like so many things, it's a misleading illusion.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby justsit » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:56 pm

himalayanspirit wrote:...I guess I should just stick to taking advice from non-westerner Buddhists from now on...


Perhaps sticking to taking advice from your teacher would be the better option?
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby zangskar » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 pm

himalayanspirit wrote:When I read the other thread, I was a bit depressed and was almost in the verge of losing faith (I am not initiated into any sect but have developed some faith and interest in Buddhism in some years) that Buddhism only probably attracts hippies, druggies and losers. But now I am somewhat relieved to regain the faith that the mental states gained by taking mushrooms, LSD or other drugs are nothing but a great illusion and the taker opens gateways for hell by doing so. I was almost into thinking that what the past Buddhists so vividly described in Sutras and Sastras was probably of the same nature as the Shaman who described Spirit-journey by taking Ayahuasca; and therefore Buddhism is probably not any useful in understanding reality or eliminating suffering. But I started reading about the Eastern Buddhists and have finally regained my faith..


Maybe you should try to develop some compassion for those who have problems and who use drugs instead of feeling relieved to have regained your belief that they will go to hell. If that is really what you mean to say, and not just a failure to express yourself clearly. I hope and believe it is failure to express yourself.

And you will have to agree that you could not have had much faith to begin with, if you lose it so easily. It is sad if you let yourself be dragged down by other people having taken drugs and having developed wild ideas about Buddhism. Tragicomic in a way, if you end up suffering only the side effects of drugs you didn't even ingest yourself? Do you see who the joke is on then? :)


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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Acchantika » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:41 pm

Hi himalayanspirit

I am sorry that any views or opinions expressed by me would cause you such doubt and distress. Truly, it upsets me profoundly that my words could have such a negative and harmful effect.

I'm realtively young, there is more than a forty year difference between myself and some of the posters here. So it should be no surprise that I am still learning, nor that some of my ideas should be immature or simply stupid. I felt it was important to express them so that they could be corrected, or even simply seen to be erroneous retrospectively, which is certainly the case with many things I said in that thread. I lack the capacity to trust my own judgement in correcting ideas and must rely on others, but in hindsight perhaps this is as selfish thing to do and not a wholesome use for this board, which deserves better than to be stained by my arrogant and empty opinions.

The generation I'm from, mostly, don't practice Dharma, they do drugs, get drunk, have lots of sex and generally just chase experiences. Among other things this means that what is relevant to them is changing, and I felt that it was important to give these things a platform, if only so that they can be dismissed. It was never my intention to cause any harm, and if that is the result of anything I have said then I think it is clear my presence here is not beneficial.

In short, please don't let the uninformed opinions of the confused and deluded to reflect anything to do with Dharma, other members or other Buddhists.

:namaste:
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:43 pm

Ditto. Mea culpa.

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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby edearl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:16 pm

I am a hippie since the 60's, and wish I'd gotten into Buddhism then. My drug taking days are long gone, except for medicinal drugs, and I am quitting some of those because of Buddhism. Meditation is a more powerful pain killer than morphine and others (including Vicodin and pot that I recently stopped ingesting). Moreover, meditation is good in other ways.

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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby kirtu » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:48 pm

What is a hippy, an ex-hippies or a New-Age person? I know we have people from the 60's here.

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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby KeithBC » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:51 pm

If you start a thread about drugs (or a drug), then you have to expect that the subsequent discussion will be about drugs. That is the most basic karma. It doesn't indicate the preoccupation of the majority of people here.

For the record, I am a hippie, neither "former" nor "New Age". My drug choices have always been legal and not particularly extravagant.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby kirtu » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:02 pm

himalayanspirit wrote:I dont want to be misguided by an former hippy who took up drugs, had lots of sex, and accumulated heavy karma, telling me that you can reach the first two Jhanas by taking LSD.


Gosh I had a 19 year old basically say that to me 10 years ago (except he was talking about Dzogchen). I was shocked. Drug culture can still be strong in places in the US.

Personally, I feel that drugs are bad for human beings just like how cigarettes and alcohol are bad (both are listed as "drugs" anyway)


That's what HH Penor Rinpoche said (he was talking about drug, tobacco use and alcohol misuse).

You should first introspect why people take drugs to begin with. Here in India, people in the rural areas usually take up alcohol and become addicts to ease themselves out of some trauma or failure or depression. It gives temporary relief. But they end up becoming nuisance to the society, sometimes beating wives, creating a scene in public etc etc.


Alcohol addiction is incredibly destructive. I've seen it first hand in my family. They also didn't see the terrible effects tobacco use had on them either.

However some of the old Trungpa followers still drink a bit.

I guess all Buddhists should denounce drug abuse.


Exactly. Drugs are demons. For real.

But now I am somewhat relieved to regain the faith that the mental states gained by taking mushrooms, LSD or other drugs are nothing but a great illusion and the taker opens gateways for hell by doing so.


I believe that Trungpa Rinpoche came to this conclusion as well. He apparently did take LSD one time after some of his students pestered him about it but concluded that it was like double samsara (I think because Tibetans don't have a real grasp of mathematics he probably meant samsara squared - and I'm taking that from what I remember of his statement).

Kirt
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Kyosan » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:21 pm

himalayanspirit wrote:I opened a thread about the effects of a drug I read about and how the mental states it leads to are explained in Buddhism. And what I get is a bunch of ex-hippies advocating the use of drugs, narcotics, psychedelics etc? LOL


I looked at the thread and there were only about 6 persons who posted in it. I think about 2 were against drug use in Buddhism and about 4 weren't (at least they didn't say they where against it). From that you conclude that most of the hundreds of people on this board favor drug use. There is no way you can draw such a conclusion from such a small sample. Don't you think that people who do use mind-altering drugs would be more likely to respond in such a thread?
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Kyosan » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:31 pm

KeithBC wrote:If you start a thread about drugs (or a drug), then you have to expect that the subsequent discussion will be about drugs. That is the most basic karma. It doesn't indicate the preoccupation of the majority of people here.

For the record, I am a hippie, neither "former" nor "New Age". My drug choices have always been legal and not particularly extravagant.

Om mani padme hum
Keith

You are a hippie. Good for you! There are many things I like about the hippies. I don't like to see discrimination against them.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Chaz » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:45 pm

KeithBC wrote:If you start a thread about drugs (or a drug), then you have to expect that the subsequent discussion will be about drugs. That is the most basic karma. It doesn't indicate the preoccupation of the majority of people here.

For the record, I am a hippie, neither "former" nor "New Age". My drug choices have always been legal and not particularly extravagant.

Om mani padme hum
Keith



I too am a hippie. I still prefer music of the 60s and 70s compared to the pablum that passes for music today. Unlike Kieth I don't wear tie-dyes. I look terrible in a tie-dyed t-shirt - like Monet puked on my chest! Also unlike Kieth, I still partake in the occaisional bong hit, or two (but I won't say how frequest those occaisions are). I haven't done any acid in 20 years tho.

I also agree, you start a thread ike the one you did, you could rightfully expect the thread to go in the direction it did, especially when you put it in the Dharma Free-For-All board.

And ripping on the whole board while making sweeping generalizations about us "hippies" is just plain tacky.

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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Jnana » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:00 pm

catmoon wrote:You will find academics quietly discussing the sutras, people building a Buddhism based on faith, others building on practicality, some working with rules and regulations, and still others working with formal reason and logic. And as you will have noticed, we have some very high-volume posters who appear to represent the board simply because they post a lot of stuff. But like so many things, it's a misleading illusion.

Indeed.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby edearl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:17 pm

kirtu wrote:What is a hippy, an ex-hippies or a New-Age person? I know we have people from the 60's here.

Kirt


The '50s post WWII in the US was an age, characterized by the TV series "Father Knows Best," sort-of. The hippies shocked people from that era, and started a new age, which has continuously and quickly evolved into today.

According to dictionary.com, a hippie is:
a person, especially of the late 1960s, who rejected established institutions and values and sought spontaneity, direct personal relations expressing love, and expanded consciousness, often expressed externally in the wearing of casual, folksy clothing and of beads, headbands, used garments, etc.


That definition is like a snapshot that is a limited image. You could read books, such as The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe, which is a work of literary journalism about Ken Kesey--author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and Sometimes a Great Notion. Ken Kesey considered himself a link between the Beat Generation and hippies. Woodstock is, IMO, was a defining moment for hippies, but they changed as they aged. They embrace change.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:40 pm

I've been a hippy, and just before a beatnik (the very last group), and of course I use to smoke marijuana and sometime took acids (even tried others stuff ... was curious) ... that was the good old time. Now this period is over ... and I have no regrets.
you may found a lot of old hippies having smoked pots by westerners's buddhists practitioners, ... it is so! must even be a reason for that by that time.

Be happy and relax
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby LastLegend » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:12 pm

So we have 4 identified hippies: KeithBC, Chaz, edearl, and Sonam.

Damn hippies!
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby gnegirl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Not an ex-hippie.

Ex-wicca. Go figure that one....
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby edearl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:20 pm

LastLegend wrote:So we have 4 identified hippies: KeithBC, Chaz, edearl, and Sonam.

Damn hippies!

At least 4 including me. Peace!, We love you in spite of your damnation.
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Re: So this forum is comprised mostly of former New-Age hippies?

Postby edearl » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:29 pm

gnegirl wrote:Not an ex-hippie.

Ex-wicca. Go figure that one....

You reminded me of another wicca and Catholic I once knew at work. He was a bit weird and when he learned she was a wicca, he fell off the deep end. I think he believed she would cast a spell on him to make his extremities rot off, or something, IDK.
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