astrology

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astrology

Postby maybay » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:40 pm

Suppose astrology can't be proved one way or the other.
Anyone interested in discussing from a historical / holistic perspective?
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Re: astrology

Postby alwayson » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

I know a fair bit of Indian astrology, although I am ambivalent whether its legit or not.

I believe Hindu and Buddhist astrology is more or less the same???
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Re: astrology

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:50 am

Please give a working definition of 'astrology' because I understand that it has a different meaning in the Tibetan tradition than it does in the European tradition.

Please define what you mean by "prove".

Thank you.
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Re: astrology

Postby maybay » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:52 pm

Most modern Indian astrologers use the sidereal zodiac which puts all the symbolism out by a sign and a half.
Some like Ernst Wilhelm say use the tropical for the signs and sidereal for the nakshatras.

Screenshot.png
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The inner chart is Lama Choden Rinpoche, the outer is Ram Bahadur Bomjom accurate to the day.
I find it intriguing that they both have such naturally strong placements. According to Saravali 3 exalted planets makes a king.
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Re: astrology

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:53 pm

Again, what do you mean by the term ' astrology ' ? Please define.
For example, some astrology relies on the appearance of constellations. but those formations only appear when viewed from the Earth. If you go out far enough into space, all the connect-the-dots are rearranged.

if it has to do with where the stars appear in the night sky, the fact is that by the time we see the light from a star, it has since moved to another place, or may have even ceased to exist eons ago.

if it has to do with gravitational pull, gravity is actually an extremely weak force. Consider the fact that you can lift anything off the surface of the earth, or that photons, which are so very small, can escape the pull of the Sun, which is so very big. The gravitational force of any object in your room has a much greater pull on you than any planet.

Or consider the very concept of night and day, which is in fact nothing more than the movement of a shadow on a spinning ball, and that aside from that, no actual separation of night and day exists. So, if you say you were born on a certain day, then so was I, because a "day" is just a fraction of time we have made up. In fact, before the earth existed, there were no days, no years or centuries as we know them. Before the Earth came into existence (and it still is, by the way) there were no years, because a year is the time it takes for the earth to go around the Sun.

So, if you are asking about astrology being proven one way or another, then you have to ask about what aspect of something which people dump under the general heading of 'astrology' can be proven. If you are talking about how a living thing is a microcosm of the universe or something like that, then again, you need to talk about specifics.
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Re: astrology

Postby maybay » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:28 pm

I specifically wanted to avoid the question of astrology's validity - but in essence it is a form of divination / prediction. The heavenly bodies are simply the hands of the clock. When you know what time it is, you can tie your observations to those moments and find patterns that reoccur. The more accurately you can tell the time, and the more observations you make and share with others, the better you can predict future events.
Its actually very simple.
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Re: astrology

Postby Malcolm » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:16 pm

maybay wrote:Most modern Indian astrologers use the sidereal zodiac which puts all the symbolism out by a sign and a half.
Some like Ernst Wilhelm say use the tropical for the signs and sidereal for the nakshatras.





Kalacakra uses tropical for everything.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
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Re: astrology

Postby maybay » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:39 pm

Europe became focused on sun astrology, the moon eventually falling out of our calendars, and the success of technology, reason, even monotheism, reflects this - all becoming hostile to the sympathetic practice of astrology itself. The trend continues today, and the response by astrologers, as I watch, is to become tight-fisted and impossibly elitist with their mere dry understanding of angles and archetypes.

The Indians however placed a lot of emphasis on the moon and retained a nuanced understanding of time. Unfortunately their loyalty to tradition, to the idea of an absolute point in time when the sidereal and tropical zodiacs met, a Vedic origin of all authority, led to the corruption of the siddhantas. The rituals based on these corrupted calendars, such as the Kumba Mela, have become ineffective, or at least less effective since they are not in concert with the universe. Imagine that, 33 million people all taking a bath at the wrong time!

The Kalacakra distinguishes itself by asserting the primacy of first-hand observation and the cyclic nature of time - not dependent on some arbitrary point in Vedic history, or the birth of an unenlightened being. But in Tibet even the Kalacakra was not followed correctly by most, and again we see a correlation between the decline of a civilization and its inability to tell the time.

Today astrologers are meeting and mixing their ideas. We have the technology from the civilizations of sun astrology and the deep and profound understanding of symbolism from the civilizations that followed the moon. With these coming together I think our understanding of our place, individually, socially, will meet with a great need from our leaders to know the age old art of the timing of events.

Buddha himself noted that even a good word out of time is best left unsaid. So why when the world is more complex and chaotic than it has ever appeared do we not appreciate the importance of timing?

'Not yet', I hear you say. Perhaps we're still hoping for the resolution of 'progress'. 2009, 2010, 2011 - the numbers will continue to tick over without meaning along the onerous plane of rational, linear time. How can we let our astrologers and politicians wander at the poles of society? Maybe I'll have a cocktail party one of these (auspicious) days.
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