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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Jikan » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:12 pm

In the bone yard wrote:
Norwegian wrote:To me God sounds more like a preta anyways...



Of course, it is the biggest concept we have.

There is no worry regarding translations, even with good translations we will each carry away a different meaning according to our karma or spiritual dispositions/beliefs/concepts.


Which is to say: it's just easier to believe what we want to believe.

If you want to believe in God and practice Christianity, by all means do so.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:50 pm

Norwegian wrote:what's important when I look at another religion, let's say Christianity, since this is the topic here - or rather the God of that specific religion - I look at what this God teaches. How does this God behave? And so on.


I am interested in knowing why people put Buddhism into the category of religion.
:shrug:
.
.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Sönam » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:16 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Norwegian wrote:what's important when I look at another religion, let's say Christianity, since this is the topic here - or rather the God of that specific religion - I look at what this God teaches. How does this God behave? And so on.


I am interested in knowing why people put Buddhism into the category of religion.
:shrug:
.
.
.


because they did'nt found any better category to classify ...

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby dakini_boi » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:01 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
I am interested in knowing why people put Buddhism into the category of religion.
:shrug:
.
.
.


Because Buddhism uses all the techniques that have been used in religions.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Jikan » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:33 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Norwegian wrote:what's important when I look at another religion, let's say Christianity, since this is the topic here - or rather the God of that specific religion - I look at what this God teaches. How does this God behave? And so on.


I am interested in knowing why people put Buddhism into the category of religion.
:shrug:
.
.
.


Here's a rather generic definition of the word "religion."

a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


Seems reasonable to me. That said, I'm not so sure that Buddhism is a religion in the same way that, say, Eckankar or Mormonism might be. Religion is a broad and difficult category.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Sönam » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:47 pm

Wikipedia ... religion for dharma?

Etymology

Religion (from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods,"[5] "obligation, the bond between man and the gods"[6]) is derived from the Latin religiō, the ultimate origins of which are obscure. One possibility is derivation from a reduplicated *le-ligare, an interpretation traced to Cicero connecting lego "read", i.e. re (again) + lego in the sense of "choose", "go over again" or "consider carefully". Modern scholars such as Tom Harpur and Joseph Campbell favor the derivation from ligare "bind, connect", probably from a prefixed re-ligare, i.e. re (again) + ligare or "to reconnect," which was made prominent by St. Augustine, following the interpretation of Lactantius.[7][8] The medieval usage alternates with order in designating bonded communities like those of monastic orders: "we hear of the 'religion' of the Golden Fleece, of a knight 'of the religion of Avys'".

According to the philologist Max Müller, the root of the English word "religion", the Latin religio, was originally used to mean only "reverence for God or the gods, careful pondering of divine things, piety" (which Cicero further derived to mean "diligence").[10][11] Max Müller characterized many other cultures around the world, including Egypt, Persia, and India, as having a similar power structure at this point in history. What is called ancient religion today, they would have only called "law".

Many languages have words that can be translated as "religion", but they may use them in a very different way, and some have no word for religion at all. For example, the Sanskrit word dharma, sometimes translated as "religion", also means law. Throughout classical South Asia, the study of law consisted of concepts such as penance through piety and ceremonial as well as practical traditions. Medieval Japan at first had a similar union between "imperial law" and universal or "Buddha law", but these later became independent sources of power.

There is no precise equivalent of "religion" in Hebrew, and Judaism does not distinguish clearly between religious, national, racial, or ethnic identities. One of its central concepts is "halakha", sometimes translated as "law"", which guides religious practice and belief and many aspects of daily life.

The use of other terms, such as obedience to God or Islam are likewise grounded in particular histories and vocabularies.
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby KeithBC » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:57 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:I am interested in knowing why people put Buddhism into the category of religion.

I would turn the question around and ask why people define religion to include only beleif systems that include gods.

Om mani padme hum
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Infinite » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:54 am

I know Durkheim described something as a religion based on common social interactions he never used Gods or the other Western Centric ideas to define religions. He found it would not allow various Bushmen religions in Africa and Australia into the mix if he did such a thing.
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Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby Wesley1982 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:56 pm

What are Buddhist opinions about the historical Jesus Christ? . .
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby steveb1 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:27 pm

I doubt it matters much to many Buddhists.

Some Buddhists revere Jesus as a kind of Boddhisattva. Some Christians see parallels between Jesus' teaching of death to self ("find yourself by losing yourself; take up your cross daily") and the Buddha's teaching of selflessness.

There are crackpot theories that Jesus learned Buddhism in India and returned with his learning to do his mission in Judea (I think this idea borders on anti-Semitism, since it claims that Jesus, a Jew, could only attain enlightenment outside of Judaism; and that Jews, none of whom could be enlightened, needed to hear "The Truth from the East" in order to be "saved"). Sources that claim this view have largely been debunked, as far as I am aware.

So for most Buddhists what matters are the Buddha/Shakyamuni, the arhats, the great teachers bodhisattvas and celestial Buddhas, primary Buddhas like Amida Buddha, etc. Jesus is a peripheral figure, who represents another world religion. If Jesus is not a peripheral figure, then the question becomes, for the person who regards Jesus as essential, is the person still really a Buddhist ?
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby pueraeternus » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:33 pm

Watch this and find out the real truth about Christ in relation to the Buddha

:popcorn:

http://www.amazon.com/Jerome-Bixbys-The ... 091&sr=8-1
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby Tilopa » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:48 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:What are Buddhist opinions about the historical Jesus Christ? . .

He was Jewish and a pretty good guy.
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:11 am

Yes, religion is a complicated thing to narrow down.

I would start with the basic Buddhist premise that all beings strive for happiness,
then specifically refer to humans because we employ conceptual methods: religions, politics, hard work, scientific discovery, music, yoga, armed robbery, and so on, all of the methods that people turn to in order to achieve happiness and freedom from suffering.

So, Buddhism can be classified as something people turn to, side by side with every other method people turn to.
It is only due to similarities between Buddhism and religion that it is compared with religion and called religion.
But it can just as easily be compared with any method people use to attain the goal of freedom from suffering.
...
...
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:46 am

He looks like that guy from The Passion Of The Christ who got tortured the whole movie and then nailed to that lowercase 't' looking thing at the end. :tongue:
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby plwk » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:15 am

A 'radical'?
http://bible.cc/matthew/10-34.htm
Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.
For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And as a man's enemies shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
http://bible.cc/john/10-30.htm
I and the Father are one.
http://bible.cc/matthew/7-21.htm
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
http://bible.cc/matthew/12-47.htm
Someone told him, "Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside asking to speak to you."
He asked the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"
Then pointing with his hand at his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers, because whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
A social activist?
http://www.bible-guide-online.com/jesus ... p-ten.html
"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles
http://bible.cc/matthew/19-13.htm
Then some little children were brought to him so that he might lay his hands on them and pray. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.
Leadership?
"You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all.

For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
A rejected teacher?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=DRA
And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them:
'A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.'
'Cool' and moral teachings?
http://www.bible-guide-online.com/jesus ... p-ten.html
"Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye"

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

"So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."
http://bible.org/seriespage/jesus-prayer-matthew-65-15
Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward you
Died a Roman convict?
http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/life-of- ... w=Journals
Then Pilate spoke to them again, wanting to release Jesus, but they shouted, saying, "Crucify! Crucify him!"
He said to them the third time, "Why? What evil has this man done? I have found no capital crime in him. I will therefore chastise him and release him." But they were urgent with loud voices, asking that he might be crucified. Their voices and the voices of the chief priests prevailed. Pilate decreed that what they asked for should be done. He released him who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, for whom they asked, but he delivered Jesus up to their will.
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby ngodrup » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:46 am

Believing that Jesus was familiar with Buddhist thought is not especially crackpot.
Although it is highly unlikely that he traveled to India, Tibet or Shambhala...

Roman occupied Palestine was an international crossroads, so Indian thought
was known to learned people. The Biblical narrative says that the family escaped
to Egypt. Perhaps. If so, there was a Buddhist community there-- an outpost of
King Ashoka's evangelism.

So, since this itinerant Rabbi is depicted in the Biblical narrative as being literate--
he read, wrote, and debated--- it is not unlikely that he heard debates in public
squares representing many foreign teachings. Not only that, but it is reasonable to
think that he was mufti-lingual: Aramaic certainly, Hebrew -- which was at the time
a dead language, possibly Latin-- the language of a Carpenter's customers, possibly
eve Greek-- the language of wealthy Romans. All this adds up to a very sophisticated
thinker and teacher who may have been familiar with Buddhist dialectic.
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby Seishin » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:31 am

The opinion of Jesus to a Buddhist is as varied as the opinions of Jesus to a non-buddhist.

Gassho,
Seishin.
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby rats_nest » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:40 pm

I can't speak for all Buddhists about the opinion of Jesus but i think it is interesting to compare how different the relationships are between the main teachers of christians and buddhists. I think Buddha is more admired for his words and teachings. That is all that remains (arguably) from him.
Therefore if the person "Siddharta Gautama" should be disproven to exist (at least in the form that we came to understand) this wouldn't subvert Buddhism as the arguments remain valid. As i have understood, christians are more bound to their saviour. What is your take on this?
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Re: Buddhism on God

Postby Jnana » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:22 pm

According to the Kāraṇḍavyūha Sūtra, Maheśvara (Śiva) is born from Avalokiteśvara's forehead, Brahmā is born from his shoulders, and Nārāyaṇa (Viṣṇu) from his heart. Avalokiteśvara also appears in the form these gods to teach the dharma to sentient beings who have affinities with these religious forms.

BTW, Peter Alan Roberts has made a new English translation of the Kāraṇḍavyūha Sūtra which should be available on the 84000 website in the near future.

Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ.
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Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus

Postby mint » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:What are Buddhist opinions about the historical Jesus Christ? . .


Depends on the Buddhist's place of origin and experience of Christians and Christianity.
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