Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

[Mr. G]

Got "Shock Doctrine" on my book shelf, stopped reading it.

A documentary adaptation:

[ronnewmexico]

Related to the most recent posts on this issue the military in america at least...

I will not provide link one can look it up if one wants...now is being proposed legislation combined into the defense appropriation bill in congress presently to have a stipulation if one is found by the government to be a terrorist, one is to be able to be held without legal recourse for as long as the government wants and all venue for legal approach or defense is to be by military not civilian means and court.

Don't believe me check it out yourself if this is being done/proposed.

So.....the writing is on the wall....military arrest no possibility of redress in civilian court, and necessary not optional for all considered by government to be terrorist. Military internment and trial if one eventually. Yes, dear friends military in war may intern for years and years with no charges nor trial(see Guantanamo bay).

I have always felt this particular blip of freedom of sorts present in some places is but a historic blip and soon is to close th window on those things...I think this is happening in the US at least.
All may be considered terrorist....there is no legal recourse to say one is not....if this passes. Military decides who is terrorist and who is not.

This or something similiar will pass eventually....I have not a doubt about that...so sad.

Think you as buddhists are immune. All it would take is for one buddhist country say a sri lanka or a burma for some reason for that government to be decided to be terrrorist by the US government.....then you buddhist be at hazard for being terrorist considered.
Now muslim is the focus and muslim nation the attention of the military...there is nothing to state fifty years or so from now the enemy terrorist will not be other...germany japan once great enemies are now staunchest allies of the US and Venezuela, now greatest enemy, once greatest friend.

So perhaps one as buddhism may be concerned with such things. It is so easily to see it may slip this way or that.
Now it is muslim and muslim nation...it may be a bit of a reach to expect one not of that religion to voice c/oncern for those held as enemy when holding to another religion...humans just are not that way it seems...to concern for other when one is not that other. If those held for years and years in guatanamo bay.... 90% or so relesed after internment, without charge(years later) ....were they buddhist.....would you not have raised voice?.

Now all american citizens fault that similiar fate by law proposed. Those in guantanamo also were not us being of other nation.

[gregkavarnos]

Yes, well... kind of reminiscent of the poem by Pastor Martin Niemöller written during the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Just replace the word "Jews" with the word "Muslims" and you get the picture.

[Sönam]

Think you as buddhists are immune.

Not so much friends ... we are on the black list http://www.inquisitr.com/163527/vatican-exorcist-specialist-says-yoga-is-the-devils-exercise/

Sönam

[ronnewmexico]

That is perhaps over the top...but if one has the time and energy to devote to it one may find quote.... a prior leader of that church did in fact state buddhism is opposed to christianity, a threat to it of sorts...this in current times (pope before last I believe). Not asking for war against it of course, but first to my experience come that...the identification always.

Christianity has not a lot of direct contact with buddhism as direct not perhaps as islam with christianity, but when it does like as not the experience is a negative.
Buddhism as being not a abrahamic religion is far removed from the religious scope that is islam and christianity.
Rumor has it.....

buddhist at times were considered to be completely wrong in things by those abrahamic religions at times.... believing not of gods in their manner of god...and thusly treated as animals or worse.
Faulted of course even in those religions oppression is not found.... but this again present time seems but blip to me. Always jsut on the brink is this thing of hate and terror this is....us not them.

the heart of it being...we are not them they are not us...always

All to my opinion being equal of chinese oppression of muslim nation in what is now called china exactly equal to chinese oppression of buddhist nation in what is now called china is equal to american native american nation oppression in what is now called the us exactly equal....and on and on.

But we only fight this thing when it is upon us or about us...religion nationality or culture....never fought that battle when it is not us.

[Silent Bob]

[quote="ronnewmexico"]That is perhaps over the top...but if one has the time and energy to devote to it one may find quote.... a prior leader of that church did in fact state buddhism is opposed to christianity, a threat to it of sorts...this in current times (pope before last I believe).
[quote]

The "prior leader" was former Hitler Youth, Cardinal Joseph (Ratso) Ratzinger, who was subsequently elevated to become the present pope, Benedict XVI: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1390460

[Thug4lyfe]

[Mr. G]

Nearly 50% of the Young People in Greece and Spain Are Unemployed

Europe is an utter disaster zone. It's a banking crisis wrapped in a sovereign debt crisis wrapped in a mystery: How the heck do we unwind all of this? But when the day-to-day news about the euro's slow meltdown focuses on bond yields and stock jitters, we often leave out the most human statistic, which is the continent's extraordinary -- and extraordinarily uneven -- unemployment rates.

Read More Here...

[kirtu]

Yes just keep believing in that over your own direct experience:

Yeah my direct experience tells me that almost everyone has housing in America.

1/3rd of Shelter Residents are Newly Homeless

[kirtu]

Dependent Origination.

Lazy and selfish homeboys can't succeed and get up on their own feet no matter how much they crave or how much they receive from others.
....
If ya down on your "luck" and hitting the bottles, then repent and try to mend your ways!

What if you're down on your luck and not lazy and not hitting the bottle?

Kirt

[alwayson]

Yes just keep believing in that over your own direct experience:

Yeah my direct experience tells me that almost everyone has housing in America.

1/3rd of Shelter Residents are Newly Homeless

yeah thats good.

It reaffirms that we don't have a static homeless group, but instead people rotate in and out.

[Thug4lyfe]

Dependent Origination.

Lazy and selfish homeboys can't succeed and get up on their own feet no matter how much they crave or how much they receive from others.
....
If ya down on your "luck" and hitting the bottles, then repent and try to mend your ways!

What if you're down on your luck and not lazy and not hitting the bottle?

Kirt

Ya still pwnt by Karma homes!!!

[Heruka]

democracy is described as two wolves and one sheep voting on whats for dinner.

There are various levels and economic bases for democracy. A direct democracy with an economic base of mutual aid is not the same as a representative democracy with a capitalist economic base.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/ ... in-greece-–-the-real-1-doctrine.html

Fascists back in power in Greece.

no need to go so far over sea

“I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world. I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom’s annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have,” Mayor Bloomberg said.

[gregkavarnos]

yeah thats good.

It reaffirms that we don't have a static homeless group, but instead people rotate in and out.

My dear alwayson, you can hide behind your finger all you like. I sincerely wish that you, your family and your loved ones never have to endure the degradation and suffering of homelessness, drug abuse, mental illness or poverty. Since today is Sangye Menla day maybe you could recall the vow the Medicine Buddha made, the vows that lead to his enlightenment and aspire that you too will one day be able to formulate and exectue vows like those.

12 Vows of Medicine Buddha

1.To illuminate countless realms with his radiance, enabling anyone to become a Buddha just like him.
2.To awaken the minds of sentient beings through his light of lapis lazuli.
3.To provide the sentient beings with whatever material needs they require.
4.To correct heretical views and inspire beings toward the path of the Bodhisattva.
5.To help beings follow the Moral Precepts, even if they failed before.
6.To heal beings born with deformities, illness or other physical sufferings.
7.To help relieve the destitute and the sick.
8.To help women who wish to be reborn as men achieve their desired rebirth.
9.To help heal mental afflictions and delusions.
10.To help the oppressed be free from suffering.
11.To relieve those who suffer from terrible hunger and thirst.
12.To help clothe those who are destitute and suffering from cold and mosquitoes.

[kirtu]

Since today is Sangye Menla day maybe you could recall the vow the Medicine Buddha made, the vows that lead to his enlightenment and aspire that you too will one day be able to formulate and exectue vows like those.

12 Vows of Medicine Buddha

1.To illuminate countless realms with his radiance, enabling anyone to become a Buddha just like him.
2.To awaken the minds of sentient beings through his light of lapis lazuli.
3.To provide the sentient beings with whatever material needs they require.
4.To correct heretical views and inspire beings toward the path of the Bodhisattva.
5.To help beings follow the Moral Precepts, even if they failed before.
6.To heal beings born with deformities, illness or other physical sufferings.
7.To help relieve the destitute and the sick.
8.To help women who wish to be reborn as men achieve their desired rebirth.
9.To help heal mental afflictions and delusions.
10.To help the oppressed be free from suffering.
11.To relieve those who suffer from terrible hunger and thirst.
12.To help clothe those who are destitute and suffering from cold and mosquitoes.

That Medicine Buddha - quite a guy!

Kirt

[Thug4lyfe]

He sure is!

[Mr. G]

[Sönam]

Not only in Greece, but in others countries in Europa (including France) and certainly in many other countries in the world, the situation is a revolutionary situation. (High) capitalism and finances have made a world open to their lust for "always more", workers (including middle class workers) have no more control on their work, if they do not accept the law of "international Finance", capitalists just close factories and indistries and open them in a country where working cost is lower. There is no limit to that situation ... they say it's the economic logic. Where is the peoples logic?
They were a time of great dictatures, nazis, fascists and so on. THis period is over, because they found much better, they found democracy which is the last trap. For years they trapped peoples in a consumption univers, now peoples have no power anymore. And they continue on and on, it seems with no limits. Now they have "officialy" taken the political power, they "replaced" the democracy, technocrats are running some countries, until they run all countries.
It is the time for a "hard" revolution, but unfortunately peoples are trapped in their own little individualism ... next step, dictators again, democraticaly elected, because they will offer the only opposition to that monkey financial rotten business. The futur is already over!

Sönam

[Quiet Heart]

Well, looking at the news it isn't hard to see the fact that Greed...greed for profit at the exclusion of anything else, including self-survival...is destroying Corporate Capitalisim.
Unfortunately, when Corporate Capitalisim goes down; it will take a lot of things with it.
In my opinion one of the things that will be "collateral damage" is the concept of "democracy".
Maybe you have other opinions...I'm exagerating you say?
Well. just ask some Tibetan Buddhists their opinion of the Chinese government's idea of "democracy" for Tibetan Buddhists.
At nearly 66 years old...I probably won't be around to see the final death throes of "American" or "Greek" democracy.
(Isn't it ironic that Greece...the "home of Democracy" ....now has a non-elected government leader ...he's appointed and selected...never elected in any election to be head of the Greek government... and that two members of that person's own party were ejected from the party for their "crime" of voting not to accept the EU "bailout" bills)
But that's just my opinion...I still allow you the democratic freedom of having your own opinion on the matter.
Enjoy having your own opinions...while you still are allowed to.

[gregkavarnos]

Regarding the video, the statement made at around the 6'30" mark by Hariloaos Daskalothanassis , the director of "American College of Greece" is indicative of the nature of global capitalism: the idea that in a global system a global citizen has to be prepared to go wherever the jobs and opportunities exist. It does not occur to the director that young people also need the support of family, friends and real social networks. He does not consider cultural and language differences, or the need for a familiarity with ones physical and social environment.

This is the vision of global capitalism: standardised employment conditions and workers in a constant state of shock, completely alienated from everything and all those around them except during periods of production. With this degree of alienation it is impossible for workers/employees to have a sense of solidarity/community and joint action against injustice. Social evolution or even revolution become impossible. The best that can happen is small disjointed and ineffectual reaction in individual workplaces. These uprisings are easily solved if there is high unemployment: fire the insurgent members and hire new staff.

Sad situation.