Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:27 pm

Sönam wrote:Please do something for you. Put that post on your wall and everytime you practice, meditate on what you've just writen ... persons, with and without home, are not statistics!

Sönam



So you know of a country that does not have homelessness?
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:28 pm

Adamantine wrote:Yes just keep believing in that over your own direct experience:



Yeah my direct experience tells me that almost everyone has housing in America. :thumbsup:
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Adamantine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:43 pm

alwayson wrote:
Adamantine wrote:Yes just keep believing in that over your own direct experience:



Yeah my direct experience tells me that almost everyone has housing in America. :thumbsup:


Actually your direct experience has peers on a Dharma forum telling you to look more closely outside of your normal (apparently wealthy neighborhood) haunts. Come to NYC for a visit and I will give you a direct experience tour.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:37 am

Adamantine wrote:Come to NYC for a visit and I will give you a direct experience tour.


Sure, and I will point out the 99% of people who do have housing through the direct experience tour part II.

Obviously the concept of a percentage is lost on you.


Adamantine wrote:look more closely outside of your normal (apparently wealthy neighborhood) haunts.


We will go to some poor neighborhoods on the direct experience tour part III since the vast majority of American poor have housing.
Last edited by alwayson on Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:43 am

Name a country without homelessness.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:55 am

alwayson wrote:Name a country without homelessness.


Perhaps Vatican City or Liechtenstein? Since Norway and Iceland have minimal homelessness then every country has homelessness.

But comparing the percentages of homelessness in the population will be instructive.

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:56 am

Since there is all this talk about homelessness and which country is better or worse at it, I looked for some statistics and percentages.

According to the statistics at the link below, about all developed countries range from about 0.5% to 1.0% and the U.S. apparently has no higher percentage than any other developed nation. The absolute numbers are more for the U.S. since there are over 300 million people in the U.S., but the percentage is about the same compared to other developed nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessne ... _countries
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:02 am

In regard to which nation is "best" overall in how they do the economy, take care of its citizens, etc., often among progressive people like we find here in this forum, the nations of Sweden, Finland, and other Scandinavian countries get mentioned as being the best.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/euchart

Take a look at the political compass graph and you will see that as progressive and good as they may be, they are actually right of center, albeit just slightly right of center, but still to the right.

Perhaps the middle way is best, with politics too? :tongue:
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:03 am

D...no offense but if you check the site those numbers are based upon 06-7 roughly it seems(if I am reading it right)...Some 09 in the country specific but still not close to 11 numbers by my guess.

that has little to no relevence to todays numbers the unemployment rate being at a historic low in that time period.

And I don't know about that other one(geeze I ate my critical pills today)....that data has hungry who just this past summer passed a law severaly favoring certain relgions... as left of france, a nation to my understading with one of the most liberal health care systems in europe.
Again that is 08 things change. Hungry as of this summer in one regard.
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WTF?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:25 am

Mr. President, I would also point out that these provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect. One section of these provisions, section 1031, would be interpreted as allowing the military to capture and indefinitely detain American citizens on U.S. soil. Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil. That alone should alarm my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but there are other problems with these provisions that must be resolved.

http://markudall.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1746
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:26 am

ronnewmexico wrote:if you check the site those numbers are based upon 06-7 roughly it seems(if I am reading it right)...Some 09 in the country specific but still not close to 11 numbers by my guess.



Okay, no problem. Show me some updated stats if you know of some links.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:59 am

Sorry dave...I'm just a trouble maker in this :smile:

Seriously I don't think the issue of a home or not is the crux of the issue. The issue in the states at least is the issue of income disparity.
HOmelessness....there is no census for the homeless as census is based upon address basis(you probably know this).

So all homeless stats are basically projections of sort based on obserational evidence. Observational evidence despite perhaps significant substantial methadology.....is in this regard to political and thus to easily influenced.
So homeless stats...in general I don't buy a one of them. In the US at least they are uncountable.
And who qualifies as having a home...is a cot in a homeless shelter not a home. Census wise I think it may be.

But anyway.....I suspect there is a issue of less homes, that is clear. More forcloseurs each month and year. More living with family members perhaps ten in a double wide trailer....is that not homeless....by my take it is. By census not at all.
Forecloseur rates and numbers that is by my take the more relevent number that may not be manipulated.
Compare forecloseur rates in each country...by my take the US is far in the lead.

You have opposeing stats to dispute my contention of that....I would absolutely listen to that.Forecloseur rates for the US are updated very often and quite current.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: WTF?

Postby Adamantine » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:58 am

Namdrol wrote:
Mr. President, I would also point out that these provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect. One section of these provisions, section 1031, would be interpreted as allowing the military to capture and indefinitely detain American citizens on U.S. soil. Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil. That alone should alarm my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but there are other problems with these provisions that must be resolved.

http://markudall.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1746



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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Adamantine » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:05 am

ronnewmexico wrote:So all homeless stats are basically projections of sort based on obserational evidence. Observational evidence despite perhaps significant substantial methadology.....is in this regard to political and thus to easily influenced.
So homeless stats...in general I don't buy a one of them.



A lot of homeless stats are based on counting numbers who sleep in shelters... but I know there are a great many homeless who avoid shelters like the plague, because A. they feel it's 10x more likely that any little belongings they own will be stolen at a shelter or B. shelter rules that enforce certain modes of behavior or conduct such as sobriety, sleeping at a certain hour, or quiet they are unable or willing to abide by.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:23 am

Sorry, but all that statistics just don't fit to me ... we (US, France, Scandinavian and so on) are rich countries, great fortunes are living there, states deal each years with billions dollards (and euros) of budget, and we "still" have homeless and some of them just die each winter ... that's incrediblly crazy. And we spend billions in war toys and others stupidities. And just because homeless and others destitute count only as statistics, so little percentage that one do not see them anymore ... and they call that civilization!

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Adamantine » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:38 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
ronnewmexico wrote:if you check the site those numbers are based upon 06-7 roughly it seems(if I am reading it right)...Some 09 in the country specific but still not close to 11 numbers by my guess.



Okay, no problem. Show me some updated stats if you know of some links.


here's a little article about the huge variance of statistics on homelessness and why there are no trustworthy figures to look at:

http://www.ehow.com/about_4615760_american-homeless-population-statistics.html
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:09 pm

As there are mentally ill, people with substance abuse problems alcoholism and all the rest......these people belong not in homes but places of care where they may be treated for their illnesses.....there will continue to be homeless.

This started way back in the US in the reagan days. STopping federal funding in many respects most states effectively put the formally institutionalized out in the streets.
So that was the first wave of homeless in the US in modern times. Ongoing it continues and the numbers increase. With no care each person who perhaps as a teen finds himself with such disability has a little window of care(perhaps family) and then when age requirement on insurance runs out or money simply runs out...no care is available....they are the homeless and their numbers continually increase.

So it is essentially a care/health care issue. Providing homes for these unfortunates will not solve their problems they need medical care.
Not getting it they will continue to be homeless. These peoples could be homelivers but mostly first to do such they need care perhaps medicine to conunter their problems.

There is a influx into the homeless community with new members due to economy. But for every one of them that comes to that population we probably have at least a hundred that are displaced but now life with relatives and friends, or other nonrecognized means.
So forecloseur by my take probably more closely represents who is in crisis and who is not. Economic homeless are gradually absorbed.
Spikes then it declines. Of course now is a spike but really this spike speaks not to the real numbers who do not have homes...forecloseurs mainly they do.

I could find curent stats, they are published every month but this is from 2010. Since this is 2011 complete stats for trhe year are not out....this has a state by state breakdown.....http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=13107798

Just a little blurb but this references at least one comparison of forcloeseurs US and UK and it references 09 to boot :smile: ...

but the variance is astounding if you look at the numbers. European nations in the main they have many concorted interests and measurements so the forcloseur rates are not as readily available as in the US......http://pubcit.typepad.com/clpblog/2011/08/comparing-the-foreclosure-crisis-in-the-us-and-europe.html....they could be found but it would take a while. Clicking on the link within the link provided(the article) will give actual comparable numbers for european countries.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Thug4lyfe » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:56 pm

Dependent Origination.

Lazy and selfish homeboys can't succeed and get up on their own feet no matter how much they crave or how much they receive from others.

Greedy fat cats can't be toppled by anyone until their good karma from previous generosity runs out.

Now stop looking at others and sort ya own shit out son!!!

If ya rich u can still live in a tent and give all your $ to others!!!!

If ya got money, success then give give give

If ya down on your "luck" and hitting the bottles, then repent and try to mend your ways!
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Re: WTF?

Postby Heruka » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:08 am

Namdrol wrote:
Mr. President, I would also point out that these provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect. One section of these provisions, section 1031, would be interpreted as allowing the military to capture and indefinitely detain American citizens on U.S. soil. Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil. That alone should alarm my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but there are other problems with these provisions that must be resolved.

http://markudall.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1746



:namaste:

at least two of us is paying attention, N i think it is already too late brother..i watched on c span today.



wow...
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:20 am

What's the difference if they legislate for military law enforcement on private citizens or not? On the one hand it will be legally imposed by government on the other hand, after the pustch, it will be legitimised by the military government. Either way you get military rule.

For me the concerning aspect is that you WILL have military rule, not HOW you will have military rule.
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