Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Heruka » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:33 am

David N. Snyder wrote::D

Remember Orwell's Animal Farm ?



lol yes...

all are equal...just some are more equal than others...


:smile:
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Tarpa » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:49 am

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Last edited by Tarpa on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
The nonexistence of the transcendence of suffering
is what the protector of the world has taught as the transcendence
of suffering.
Knots tied on space
are untied by space itself.

May I never be seperated from perfect masters in all lives,
and delightfully experiencing the magnificent dharma,
completing all qualities of the stages of the paths
may I quickly attain the state of Vajradhara
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:28 am

The utopias you guys want will only ever be unrealistic fantasies.

You want government instead of private corporations?

We already tried it. Its called Stalin.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:39 am

tobes wrote:Naomi Wolf gets it right again:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... own-occupy

:anjali:



I laughed at this

:rolling:
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Tarpa » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:41 am

deleted
Last edited by Tarpa on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
The nonexistence of the transcendence of suffering
is what the protector of the world has taught as the transcendence
of suffering.
Knots tied on space
are untied by space itself.

May I never be seperated from perfect masters in all lives,
and delightfully experiencing the magnificent dharma,
completing all qualities of the stages of the paths
may I quickly attain the state of Vajradhara
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:42 am

Namdrol wrote:The system of capitalism we had in the United States of America between 1945 -- 1972 -- Strong controls on financial industry, high taxes on the wealthy, etc. Better, but not perfect.

Since 1980, when Reagan began dismantling the New Deal, average Americans have gotten increasing more poor, and corporations have had increasingly high profits.

Since 1999, when the barriers between savings and loans and investment banks were dismantled, things have gotten markedly worse.

Greer's three economy analysis is very good. Read The Wealth of Nature: Economics as If Survival Mattered.



Yes this is reasonable.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Thug4lyfe » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:54 am

Should Buddhists in the West really join the revolution and slide to the violent bitter end? Or keep themselves safe to help the people they can liberate from Samsara when the dust clears?

I don't think the "good people doing nothing" rhetoric is really appropriate. Because there protests won't collapse because of couple of Buddhist chose not to join. We are not as important as we think we are.

I mean how far would people go? Get into gun battles with the bible belt? :/
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:20 am

Food_Eatah wrote:Why isn't more Buddhists the "fat cats" hence change the system from within? Instead withdrawal into the hippy crowd? Best way to change sheet is by becoming more powerful and influential.
Because in order to become a fat cat with enough power to change the system from within you have to rip off, crap on, steal from, kill, destroy, exploit, rape, etc... the environment and its inhabitants. Then when you have finally reached the pinnacle of power you think you are just going to give it up? You think all your lackeys are going to let you take away their golden spoons? So during your climb to the top and your final conquest of the peak you have created the problems that you wish to solve. You have become the problem and not the solution.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:33 am

alwayson wrote:The utopias you guys want will only ever be unrealistic fantasies.

You want government instead of private corporations?

We already tried it. Its called Stalin.

Your ranting reminds me of this guy:
cross eyed.jpg
cross eyed.jpg (8.36 KiB) Viewed 322 times

He, like you, can only see the extremes of left and right and absolutely nothing in between. Luckily the only thing needed is a quick trip to the optometrist and the optician to sort out the problem. Do you have health insurance? Does it cover optical problems or couldn't you afford the higher rate?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Thug4lyfe » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:18 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Food_Eatah wrote:Why isn't more Buddhists the "fat cats" hence change the system from within? Instead withdrawal into the hippy crowd? Best way to change sheet is by becoming more powerful and influential.
Because in order to become a fat cat with enough power to change the system from within you have to rip off, crap on, steal from, kill, destroy, exploit, rape, etc... the environment and its inhabitants. Then when you have finally reached the pinnacle of power you think you are just going to give it up? You think all your lackeys are going to let you take away their golden spoons? So during your climb to the top and your final conquest of the peak you have created the problems that you wish to solve. You have become the problem and not the solution.
:namaste:

You should have a look at the practitioners in Taiwan.

We deserve the wealth if we cultivated the appropriate Karma for wealth through generosity. We lose it all and even our lives if we do not cultivated our morality and wisdom and fall into Greed.

It's easy to talk about how how "rich corrupts" when one can't do it.

I'd take Buddha's teachings over "animal farm" anyday homes.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:19 am

Food_Eatah wrote:Should Buddhists in the West really join the revolution and slide to the violent bitter end?


Buddhists, because of wisdom, should oppose to what brings suffering to beings, therefore they should (and most of them do) join the revolution, pacifist as it is, also when they know that those who hold the power will come to a violent bitter end!
Buddhists should choice their camp!

Sönam
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:23 am

Food_Eatah wrote:You should have a look at the practitioners in Taiwan.

We deserve the wealth if we cultivated the appropriate Karma for wealth through generosity.


You are living in a dream, not in today's world ... this is true utopia! Buddhists are not holy dreamers!
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Thug4lyfe » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:38 am

Sönam wrote:You are living in a dream, not in today's world ... this is true utopia! Buddhists are not holy dreamers!

You obviously prefer to follow Samsaraic pattern of killing your enemies than work with Karma.

As I say again, maybe it's time to look at other cultures beyond a Eurocentric view?
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:46 am

Food_Eatah wrote:
Sönam wrote:You are living in a dream, not in today's world ... this is true utopia! Buddhists are not holy dreamers!

You obviously prefer to follow Samsaraic pattern of killing your enemies than work with Karma.

As I say again, maybe it's time to look at other cultures beyond a Eurocentric view?


what can I say ... no one can replace the view of someone blind. Be happy and continue your practice ... maybe one day the light will come.
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:55 pm

Food_Eatah wrote:You should have a look at the practitioners in Taiwan.
And you should take a look at the rich non-practitioners of Taiwan and the rest of the world.

We deserve the wealth if we cultivated the appropriate Karma for wealth through generosity. We lose it all and even our lives if we do not cultivated our morality and wisdom and fall into Greed.
First of all there is no deserved and not-deserved, we are merely talking about the "natural" consequences of past deeds of generosity. Secondly, we may have the past karma to set up the causes and conditions for wealth in this lifetime. How we acquire our wealth in this lifetime and what we do with it is a COMPLETELY different story. If we utilised non-virtuous means we will have non-virtuous outcomes (not necessarily in this lifetime, and in the absence of regret, etc...), even if we utilise the riches we have acquired with non-virtulous means for virtuous projects, well... This all, of course, also has as a conditioning factor our mindset during the execution of the actions. So I am afraid it's not so cut and dry.
It's easy to talk about how how "rich corrupts" when one can't do it.
You don't know how rich I am or how rich I can become. ;)

Anyway, this all begs the question: how many virtuous filthy rich people in positions of power do you know of?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:21 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
alwayson wrote:The utopias you guys want will only ever be unrealistic fantasies.

You want government instead of private corporations?

We already tried it. Its called Stalin.

Your ranting reminds me of this guy:
cross eyed.jpg

He, like you, can only see the extremes of left and right and absolutely nothing in between. Luckily the only thing needed is a quick trip to the optometrist and the optician to sort out the problem. Do you have health insurance? Does it cover optical problems or couldn't you afford the higher rate?
:namaste:



Don't extrapolate your experience in Greece to the rest of the Western world.

You Greeks have noone to blame but yourselves.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:34 pm

alwayson wrote:The utopias you guys want will only ever be unrealistic fantasies.

You want government instead of private corporations?

We already tried it. Its called Stalin.


Since utopias are impossible, I would like to have a strong, democratic government than can keep the economic and environmental impact of banks and corporations beneficial and in the interests of the people, and which provides a high level of educational and social welfare benefits to everyone.

But even that is utopian in this day and age of corporate rapaciousness and neo-liberal, chicago school, economic piracy.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:41 pm

Namdrol wrote:Since utopias are impossible
N


Serious question:

Is it not possible for a rainbow body to stay in this world and help establish a better society?
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:01 pm

alwayson wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Since utopias are impossible
N


Serious question:

Is it not possible for a rainbow body to stay in this world and help establish a better society?


Of course, this result is called phowa chenpo. Kuzang Dechen Lingpa achieved this. Hopefully ChNN will manifest this as well.

For some time, ChNN has been emphasizing that the best way to go is personal evolution through Dzogchen -- he is convinced this will change the whole world. Revolution does not work.

N
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http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:05 pm

Where are all these phowa chenpos right now November 26, 2011?

Why can't they stay in the open and establish chakravartin rule over the Earth?

Unless they all subscribe to Norbu rinpoche's point of view.
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