Running as meditation

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Running as meditation

Postby gnegirl » Tue May 17, 2011 6:47 pm

I am wondering if anyone else uses running as a type of meditation. My mind seems so very focused on what i'm doing at the time (running down the road), and it allows me to have some space in my thoughts. Its a bit easier for me than sitting meditation at times.

Anyone else?
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Running as meditation

Postby ground » Tue May 17, 2011 7:13 pm

Running is a bad alternative to sitting. If you use it because sitting does not work then you will never learn to meditate but get addicted to running and its merely physical effects.
You have to learn how to get a grip on sitting.


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Re: Running as meditation

Postby gnegirl » Tue May 17, 2011 7:23 pm

I disagree, its just a type of very fast walking meditation.

One has to focus on breath, one has to be in the moment (or you wipe out), and that naturally leads to a calm, centered place.

There is just your breath, your body, the road, and the environment.
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Running as meditation

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue May 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Well it seems to depend upon what one means by meditation and the context of useage,

Phrases can be found in my practice manuals which state such things as...one may not meditate at all.
What is meant is not that one must not be performing meditational practices but one must not carry with them when participating in meditational practices the thought or notion one is engageing in a meditation. If such is so engaged in this manner one is not engageing in meditational practices but performing a thing....in reality meditation is as our natural mind state is. If we are performing a thing we may as well be constructing shoes. But if constructing shoes with meditational presence such becomes a meditation or may be considered in a grosser form a meditation.

So my experience with discussions such as these on this subject both are right. Meditation may not be performed with running and meditation may indeed be performed with running.

Functionally practically certainly it may be used as a means of discipline.Some are so inclined to active or physical means to discipline mind.
Japan most famously has Buddhist monks running for long long periods in a spiritual ceremony of sorts,which they endeavor every so many years.
Everything may be used in my practice to endeavor making the minds daily activity a constant meditational one. But all practices are not the same.
To offer that yours is like this or others are like that I can't speak. But mine most definately has in my contexts description all things to be a meditation.
Whatever pursuit one may concievably engage in.
Are they formal sitting meditations...no of course not.
Do they train and educate mind to understand what is as opposed to what is thought to be....certainly, sucessfully practiced, I personally claim no success.

So yes if your practice is conducive to this I say...run away.
If it appears to conflict check with your spiritual teacher.
MY practice personally....I endeavor both. I find always a necessity for some daily sitting. I do consider very many other things I conduct myself in on a daily basis meditations as well.
So personally I would not abandon all sitting meditations....supplement...certainly. Establishing a samaya a committment or bond of practice provides impetus for me personally for continuance of sitting meditations.That is personally how I enter these things daily. Through samaya.
Rarely I do not perform them.

But I as well run away, and sleep away and crap away and piss away and walk away and hike away.....I rarely talk away however. Such at present seems impossible for me. Most other things I may do them away as well. Quite unusual things considered little spiritual in a conventional sense as well.
So I personally have not a simgen of fear in that thing. Though perhaps not Buddhist(I make no claim) my practice manuals are indeed and do not state such cannot be done. Nor have my formal teachers and they be Buddhist. I am instructed to watch mind and let no one say I must not do so.
So I do....in all its contexts.

So companion you have in this thing. If they say you are wrong they say both of us are wrong,though your view and practice may be differing from mine.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Running as meditation

Postby gnegirl » Tue May 17, 2011 8:08 pm

Well, i'm already practising in various sessions during the day as it is to keep samaya commitments, that's a given. I find it beneficial to get out of the shrine room and onto the trail as a way to extend that mindfulness.
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Running as meditation

Postby LastLegend » Tue May 17, 2011 8:16 pm

gnegirl wrote:I disagree, its just a type of very fast walking meditation.

One has to focus on breath, one has to be in the moment (or you wipe out), and that naturally leads to a calm, centered place.

There is just your breath, your body, the road, and the environment.


Well if your mind is not wandering off or engaging in the 3 karma of body, speech, and mind (greed, anger, and ignorance), you are meditating.

The Sutra of the 6 th Patriarch, Hui Neng
(Translated by A.F.Price and Wong Mou-Lam)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/hui_neng1.html
Chapter V. Dhyana
The Patriarch (one day) preached to the assembly as follows:
In our system of meditation, we neither dwell upon the mind (in contradistinction to the Essence of Mind) nor upon purity. Nor do we approve of non-activity. As to dwelling upon the mind, the mind is primarily delusive; and when we realize that it is only a phantasm there is no need to dwell on it. As to dwelling upon purity, our nature is intrinsically pure; and so far as we get rid of all delusive 'idea' there will be nothing but purity in our nature, for it is the delusive idea that obscures Tathata (Suchness). If we direct our mind to dwell upon purity we are only creating another delusion, the delusion of purity. Since delusion has no abiding place, it is delusive to dwell upon it. Purity has neither shape nor form; but some people go so far as to invent the 'Form of Purity', and treat it as a problem for solution. Holding such an opinion, these people are purity-ridden, and their Essence of Mind is thereby obscured.
Learned Audience, those who train themselves for 'imperturbability' should, in their contact with all types of men, ignore the faults of others. They should be indifferent to others' merit or demerit, good or evil, for such an attitude accords with the 'imperturbability of the Essence of Mind'. Learned Audience, a man unenlightened may be unperturbed physically, but as soon as he opens his mouth he criticizes others and talks about their merits or demerits, ability or weakness, good or evil; thus he deviates from the right course.
On the other hand, to dwell upon our own mind or upon purity is also a stumbling-block in the Path.
The Patriarch on another occasion preached to the assembly as follows:
Learned Audience, what is sitting for meditation? In our School, to sit means to gain absolute freedom and to be mentally unperturbed in all outward circumstances, be they good or otherwise. To meditate means to realize inwardly the imperturbability of the Essence of Mind.
Learned Audience, what are Dhyana and Samadhi? Dhyana means to be free from attachment to all outer objects, and Samadhi means to attain inner peace. If we are attached to outer objects, our inner mind will be perturbed.

When we are free from attachment to all outer objects, the mind will be in peace. Our Essence of Mind is intrinsically pure, and the reason why we are perturbed is because we allow ourselves to be carried away by the circumstances we are in.
He who is able to keep his mind unperturbed, irrespective of circumstances, has attained Samadhi.

To be free from attachment to all outer objects is Dhyana, and to attain inner peace is Samadhi. When we are in a position to deal with Dhyana and to keep our inner mind in Samadhi, then we are said to have attained Dhyana and Samadhi. The Bodhisattva Sila Sutra says, "Our Essence of Mind is intrinsically pure." Learned Audience, let us realize this for ourselves at all times. Let us train ourselves, practice it by ourselves, and attain Buddhahood by our own effort.




Chapter VIII. The Sudden School and the Gradual School
"How does your teacher instruct his disciples?" asked the Patriarch. "He tells us to meditate on purity, to keep up the sitting position all the time and not to lie down," replied Chi Ch'eng. "To meditate on purity," said the Patriarch, "is an infirmity and not Dhyana. To restrict oneself to the sitting position all the time is unprofitable. Listen to my stanza: A living man sits and does not lie down (all the time), While a dead man lies down and does not sit. On this physical body of ours Why should we impose the task of sitting?"


Chapter VII. Temperament and Circumstances
Bhikkhu Chih Huang, a follower of the Dhyana School, after his consultation with the Fifth Patriarch (as to the progress of his work) considered himself as having attained samadhi. For twenty years he confined himself in a small temple and kept up the position all the time. Hsuan Ts'e, a disciple of the Sixth Patriarch on a meditation journey to the northern bank of Huang Ho, heard about him and called at his temple. "What are you doing here?" asked Hsuan Ts'e. "I am abiding in samadhi," replied his friend, Chih Huang. "Abiding in samadhi, did you say?" observed Hsuan Ts'e. "I wish to know whether you are doing it consciously or unconsciously. For if you are doing it unconsciously, it would mean that it is possible for all inanimate objects such as earthenware, stones, trees, and weeds, to attain samadhi. On the other hand, if you are doing it consciously, than all animate objects or sentient beings would be in samadhi also." "When I am in samadhi," observed Chih Huang, "I know neither consciousness nor unconsciousness." "If that is the case," said Hsuan Ts'e, "it is perpetual samadhi; in which state there is neither abiding nor leaving. That state which you can abide in or leave off is not the great Samadhi." Chih Huang was dumbfounded. After a long while, he asked, "May I know who is your teacher?" "My teacher is the Sixth Patriarch of Ts'ao Ch'i," replied Hsuan Ts'e. "How does he define dhyana and samadhi?" Chih Huang asked.

"According to his teaching," replied Hsuan Ts'e, "the Dharmakaya is perfect and serene; its quintessence and its function are in a state of Thusness. The five skandhas are intrinsically void and the six sense-objects are nonexistent. There is neither abiding nor leaving in samadhi. There is neither quietude nor perturbation. The nature of dhyana is non-abiding, so we should get above the state of 'abiding in the calmness of dhyana'. The nature of dhyana is uncreative, so we should get above the notion of 'creating a state of dhyana'. The state of the mind may be likened unto space, but (it is infinite) and so it is without the limitations of the latter." Having heard this, Chih Huang went immediately to Ts'ao Ch'i to interview the Patriarch. Upon being asked whence he came, he told the Patriarch in detail the conversation he had had with Hsuan Ts'e. "What Hsuan Ts'e said is quite right," said the Patriarch. Let your mind be in a state such as that of the illimitable void, but do not attach it to the idea of 'vacuity'. Let it function freely. Whether you are in activity or at rest, let your mind abide nowhere. Forget the discrimination between a sage and an ordinary man. Ignore the distinction of subject and object. Let the Essence of Mind and all phenomenal objects be in a state of Thusness. Then you will be in samadhi all the time." Chih Huang was thereby fully enlightened.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Running as meditation

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue May 17, 2011 8:37 pm

As a aside but relevent in some manner...

Over the years I endeavored meditations from varying spiritual perspectives. Shaministic and Taoist forms of meditations most commonly to my dim recollections have as characteristic withdrawing from or ending the practice with means necessary to protect or withdraw from the states one was within. To stop harm from occuring if state is maintained. To formally end the state with a conclusive...this is closed.

Buddhist formal meditations had no such withdrawal(at least my study) though the practice is ended and is commonly dedicated to others. Ceremony, formal ceremony of course often involves spiritual protective measures to prevent demons and such from meddleing and becoming bothersome.

So I would suppose those types of meditations would exclude any such running meditational pursuits.
Maybe some Buddhists approach that in this manner....I can't say being not familiar with all.


So there may exist diverse opinion on this thing.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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