From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:07 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Citigroup, an international financial conglomerate, confessed (in one of Greeces main, and respected, daily newspapers "Το Βημα") that it was behind a rash of email and blog posts regarding recapitalisation of Greece's international debt. The aim of this "information barrage" was to cause instability in the Greek bonds market so that the unit price of Greek governement issued bonds would drop and Citigroup could benefit by buying the bonds at lower prices. Greek authorities are now in the process of tracking down Citigroups partners in Greece to find the individuals responsible for the translation, forwarding, and posting of the misinformation that has swamped conventional and electronic media in Greece over the past two weeks.

Gotta love capitalism!
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Greg, Greece was set up by IMF/EU. so was Ireland, spain, portugal and UK, the only country that didnt go along, and take the bait with the Mafia was Iceland. But they will get theirs too, you dont get away that easy from globalist plans.

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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby kirtu » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:43 am

Heruka wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Money is classically a store of wealth or value.


Only where the fiat currency is backed by silver or gold or real assests.


No it's still a store of value - it is backed by the balance of trade (this is how currency rates were primarily pegged from the 1970's on). In this sense currency is supposed to be backed by real assets although the realty is that this is speculative. On top of that currency has been traded by currency trading institutions for decades maybe centuries.

As far as being backed by silver, gold or other rare assets - this could still be done. There is supposed to be 8133.5 or so tons of gold in US vaults so this results in 260 million ounces or so of gold - so we could peg an ounce of gold at about $15,000 which would back $4T. Or we could arbitarily set the price of gold much higer, etc. Backing currency by tangible assets in this way doesn't make sense anymore (if it ever did) but it could be done.

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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Malcolm » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:31 am

Enochian wrote:Right but it hasn't been pushed down yet, and probably won't. America is still AAA.

There is a reason why everyone in the world heavily invests in American stock exchanges.


Standard & Poor’s removed the United States government from its list of risk-free borrowers on Friday night, dropping the rating to AA+ on concerns about rising federal debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/busin ... by-sp.html
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:58 am

This is absolutely correct however this may be a bit misleading. The debt issue is a issue in the US but one used for agenda and not much more....the interest payments on one year at current rates of one trillion dollars...40 billion...seems like a lot but considering Iraq and Afghanistan are costing us 100 billion by themselves 40 billion in interest is not that big a deal at all..
Why is it so big a deal the debt....it allows agenda to stop the debt. To end social programs.

Personally I profit very greatly from this downgrade having certain investments which will stand to appreciate with the downgrade. That and a gold miner I bought today should both appreciate. Treaureies yield will appreciate on this downgrade, but they are still at historicly low levels, record low short term yesterday..

What is being replicated is FDR. After getting the US out of the great depression by social programs he started to address the deficit..That led the uS right back into recession. This is why the market dropped. Europe is the cause of the recovery today, but the drop..no one sees the government able to help the economy now...the right has won the day.

The fed meets tuesday and by my take will mention something about quantitive easing, that and the actual program may raise the market till the end of the year. A false thing...certainly. But also false is the notion debt is the US problem.
Tax rates at the clinton level...with one fell swoop the debt increases would have ended....That tells you something...this debt situation is no accident.

The downgrade.....could be deserved, but right now...spells agenda by my take. Push back.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:00 am

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:Right but it hasn't been pushed down yet, and probably won't. America is still AAA.

There is a reason why everyone in the world heavily invests in American stock exchanges.


Standard & Poor’s removed the United States government from its list of risk-free borrowers on Friday night, dropping the rating to AA+ on concerns about rising federal debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/busin ... by-sp.html


Well this is disastrous news for the global economy. I bet the market has not factored this in to the closing price of the indexes today. Expect a huge drop when the bell rings Monday morn. Wow. There's probably going to be some news about our heroes on the war front soon.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:14 am

CAW!
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:15 am

adinatha wrote:Well this is disastrous news for the global economy. I bet the market has not factored this in to the closing price of the indexes today. Expect a huge drop when the bell rings Monday morn. Wow. There's probably going to be some news about our heroes on the war front soon.


NATO is planning military operations for Syria.

https://rt.com/politics/syria-nato-rogozin-operation/
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:26 am

Fear not my friends...I would make a lot of money if such was to transpire as you describe..

unfortunately(or perhaps fortunately) I surmise it is not my karma at this time to make a lot of money :smile:

So it should have effect but as globally funds have no where else to put their money in downturns of the market.... but treasuries...this was released at this time as little impact on treasury yields at this time will occur.
So market....yeah, but treasuries yield is as far as america is concerned, is the tale of the tape.
Riseing significantly and it is end game economically for the US...market....doesn't really matter a bunch.

This in theory could push money into the market. As out of bonds goes money somewhere...to stocks or commodities.
Short term drop..longer term appreciation from just this one item considered.(other factors can drop the market though).
REleased on the weekend this will also be fodder for all the consensus builders on sunday....manipulation it is of various subtle nature.
They can not have entertained even for a minute that the debt is not the problem. So it is squashed quite effectively.

All things considered the debt should be at this level considered. But that should have been done a couple of years ago when with QE1 the fed started buying their own treasuries....now...it is agenda of the worst sort.
Last edited by ronnewmexico on Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:32 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Fear not my friends...I would make a lot of money if such was to transpire as you describe..

unfortunately(or perhaps fortunately) I surmise it is not my karma at this time to make a lot of money :smile:

So it should have effect but as globally funds have no where else to put their money in downturns of the market.... but treasuries...this was released at this time as little impact on treasury yields at this time will occur.
So market....yeah, but treasuries yield is as far as america is concerned, is the tale of the tape.
Riseing significantly and it is end game economically for the US...market....doesn't really matter a bunch.

This in theory could push money into the market. As out of bonds goes money somewhere...to stocks or commodities.
Short term drop..longer term appreciation from just this one item considered.(other factors can drop the market though).
REleased on the weekend this will also be fodder for all the consensus builders on sunday....manipulation it is of various subtle nature.
They can not have entertained even for a minute that the debt is not the problem. So it is squashed quite effectively.


You might think that your gold will go up because the market goes down. But it's not going to happen like that. An across the board deflation is what's going to happen. Nothing, except possibly cash which is already at an all time low, is going to be worth holding.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:36 am

Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:Right but it hasn't been pushed down yet, and probably won't. America is still AAA.

There is a reason why everyone in the world heavily invests in American stock exchanges.


Standard & Poor’s removed the United States government from its list of risk-free borrowers on Friday night, dropping the rating to AA+ on concerns about rising federal debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/busin ... by-sp.html



Things will get messy Monday morning.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:37 am

Another very serious danger to shorting the market is if there's a flash crash situation, there will be no one to buy back your shorts. =0.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:40 am

Huseng wrote:
adinatha wrote:Well this is disastrous news for the global economy. I bet the market has not factored this in to the closing price of the indexes today. Expect a huge drop when the bell rings Monday morn. Wow. There's probably going to be some news about our heroes on the war front soon.


NATO is planning military operations for Syria.

https://rt.com/politics/syria-nato-rogozin-operation/


Yep. Deja vu all over again.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:43 am

Gold as I mentioned on another thread depreciates as a function of margin requirement by hedge fund and others who own looseing issues...they sell gold to make the margin on the things depreciating. That certainly can happen short term, and with that the dollar strengthens. Funds need dollars when the market dips as money flow function the dollar strengthens, like the yen did as flow function following the earthquake. I made money on japan acting to depreciate the yen in response which they did through help of the IMF and several sponsor nations. Long term this will help gold and weaken the dollar.

I own a miner....I also own a fund that works the inverse of treasury yields...yields go up(as happens when bonds are downgraded) this fund goes up.

I am not new to this thing. There are two different ways of apprehending this economic thing usually defined by need to know, or if you have money to win or loose.

The miner..could go either way the reverse yield bond fund..no way I loose money on that monday.The question is how much it appreciates..I'd guess a little bit not a big bit. I hope a big big :smile: but really doubt it.

Most don't even know the yen was manipulated...I could look up my trade and tell you the date and time if that helps. Shorting the market..if you wanted to make money you had to have your bet in prior to the close friday by my take...Monday morning....early traffic would make that expensive and unlikely.
I wouldn't venture it personally. Short Index fund perhaps. I'll stay out of that trade...to late by my take.things go at the blink of a eyelash due to computer modeled trading vehicles nowadays..can't beat them speed wise.

I'm very happy personally.
Nato....I would not be happy with that....Us can't spring for the cost, but with no social programs..perhaps.
Last edited by ronnewmexico on Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:47 am

adinatha wrote:Yep. Deja vu all over again.


But nobody does anything. It is primarily the US who is responsible for all these NATO assaults on foreign countries. American youth in particular, even those who oppose such military adventures, are not really doing so much anymore.

This is a good article about this:

http://www.alternet.org/vision/151850/8 ... age=entire

This is becoming increasingly worse and worse. Economic depression has been followed by major war in the past. Israel has been talking for years about attacking Iran's nuclear program. If Syria gets attacked then that might be an opportune moment to carry out such an operation.

Ugly ugly situation.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:54 am

I disagree on some of this...this is debt crisis invention not real crisis in government. War as consequence eventually I'd buy that posaibly.
Right now....I'd be very very surprised. There is not the money for that in the US, nor political will.

Poltical will takes time with propoganda and intent it is manufactured..that takes lots of time.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Malcolm » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:59 am

Huseng wrote:
Ugly ugly situation.


Think Rome; think resource wars, think Gibbon's decline and fall...
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:04 am

ronnewmexico wrote:I disagree on some of this...this is debt crisis invention not real crisis in government. War as consequence eventually I'd buy that posaibly.
Right now....I'd be very very surprised. There is not the money for that in the US, nor political will.

Poltical will takes time with propoganda and intent it is manufactured..that takes lots of time.


The US President clearly does not need popular support to launch military operations against a foreign country without actually declaring war. This may even be sustained well beyond what is supposed to be the case.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby Indrajala » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:04 am

Namdrol wrote:
Huseng wrote:
Ugly ugly situation.


Think Rome; think resource wars, think Gibbon's decline and fall...



Maybe I'll go hide out in the Himalayas and keep my head low.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby adinatha » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:07 am

Huseng wrote:
adinatha wrote:Yep. Deja vu all over again.


But nobody does anything. It is primarily the US who is responsible for all these NATO assaults on foreign countries. American youth in particular, even those who oppose such military adventures, are not really doing so much anymore.

This is a good article about this:

http://www.alternet.org/vision/151850/8 ... age=entire

This is becoming increasingly worse and worse. Economic depression has been followed by major war in the past. Israel has been talking for years about attacking Iran's nuclear program. If Syria gets attacked then that might be an opportune moment to carry out such an operation.

Ugly ugly situation.


The young people I talk to basically have resigned themselves to the notion that this whole thing is going to crash and no one can do anything about it. They are turning to optimistic new age notions of a revolution in global consciousness.

But don't count out the American public yet. It just has to get really really pissed off, then watch out. Americans are the angriest most vindictive people in the world. The feeling of being ripped off and manipulated has not totally sunk in yet. When it does you will see a coast to coast Wisconsin plus tear gas and burning buildings.
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Re: From a Namdrol post: socialism/capitalism

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:16 am

Huseng...as I read the politic(and yes believe it or not I am also a elected political official in the democratic party..my life is impossible to believe I think :smile: ).....Obama...could not do this right now.
He is right wing but the right wing has not done the groundwork to make it happen.
It could happen, but being a bit aware of this thing of politic see not the machinations happening to enable it to happen.

So I very much doubt it right now and would be very surprised..Last time I was surprised in thing of the politic...can't remember,it is easy to read if one knows what to look for.
Never say never...but I would be greatly surprised.

PM me and I will tell you my office and title...I certainly would not believe this of this person, it seems so strange he does so many things...next week I go in wilderness to seek things I may find there...I am so strange :smile: and do so many things and have done so many things...bizzare
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