Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

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Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 5:06 pm

Discussion split from here.

I've posted it few times already, but here it goes again:

Contemplate the consequences.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon May 19, 2014 5:10 pm

Split brain theories and Freudian/Jungian notions of the unconscious are completely unrelated.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Lindama » Mon May 19, 2014 5:27 pm

Multiple personalities do exist... there are also studies showing diff physiology... one part has diabetes, the other does not. Finding the one who can recognize it is another story.

We seem to be talking here about consciousness that may have a clue about itselt, tho we wonder. I generally think of multiples as having no central core available to them but that's just another idea.

my multiple is going to work now. :tongue:
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 5:52 pm

I promise I am not being contrary for the sake of it , but..... :thinking:

( and remember under the British National Health Service system no one gets paid more or less for a given diagnosis )

The Royal College Of Psychiatry, which all psychiatrists in the UK have to be a member of in order to describe themselves legally as psychiatrists.. " sees no evidence to suggest that Multiple Personality Disorder exists in reality. It seems to be a form of hysteria combined with confabulation. A study of 87 cases showed that there was invariably secondary gain in such presentations..."

In other words they were acting out to escape the consequences of other behaviours. Or for attention or monetary gain.

The exceptions are where there are indications of brain lesions, sometimes of a subtle nature.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 6:15 pm

However, there is a very interesting condition whose existence is widely accepted ( in 30 years I have seen one case ) called a " Fugue State ". The sufferer has amnesia , including not knowing their own name or address or other aspects of their identity.
This happens in the absence of physical signs.

In the vast majority of cases the condition resolves itself spontaneously after a day or two.
And is usually found to have been triggered by the subject acting in a way which grossly breaches their own moral code. Their sense of self retreats temporarily in the face of the resulting dissonance.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 6:54 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:Split brain theories and Freudian/Jungian notions of the unconscious are completely unrelated.

Prove it.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 7:28 pm

The onus is on you to prove it..


Professional opinion does not believe it happens outside Hollywood and TV fiction.
Unless there are brain lesions present.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby rachmiel » Mon May 19, 2014 7:36 pm

I was asked in this thread to be more specific and draw on experience. So here is a concrete example of what I'm trying to get at.

I detect anger, pride, and defensiveness in some of the postings here.

Granted, I could be wrong. I'm no mindreader. But for argument's sake, let's say I'm right.

Are you who are exhibiting anger, pride, defensiveness consciously aware of these emotions as they arise in your mind? Aware of their effect on your interaction here? If not, aren't you being driven by powerful suffering-inducing forces born of ignorance and unawareness? And if you are being driven by hidden disruptive thoughts/feelings ... how can realization ever manifest?
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 7:40 pm

Simon E. wrote:The onus is on you to prove it..

Not at all, simply because I did't make any statement yet. Greg did.
Simon E. wrote:Professional opinion does not believe it happens outside Hollywood and TV fiction.
Unless there are brain lesions present.

What are you talking about here? I assume that you are just thinking "loudly", but maybe you wanted to say something meaningful?
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 7:45 pm

What I said was quite clear.

If not then your English and/or knowledge of basic brain physiology/psychology is the problem...and you have not kept up with the thread.

I was talking about Multiple Personality Disorder and 'split brain disorders' and the fact that mainstream psychiatry does not accept their existence.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 7:50 pm

Simon E. wrote:I promise I am not being contrary for the sake of it , but..... :thinking:

( and remember under the British National Health Service system no one gets paid more or less for a given diagnosis )

The Royal College Of Psychiatry, which all psychiatrists in the UK have to be a member of in order to describe themselves legally as psychiatrists.. " sees no evidence to suggest that Multiple Personality Disorder exists in reality. It seems to be a form of hysteria combined with confabulation. A study of 87 cases showed that there was invariably secondary gain in such presentations..."

In other words they were acting out to escape the consequences of other behaviours. Or for attention or monetary gain.

The exceptions are where there are indications of brain lesions, sometimes of a subtle nature.



Bump.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 8:00 pm

Simon E. wrote:What I said was quite clear.

If not then your English and/or knowledge of basic brain physiology/psychology is the problem...and you have not kept up with the thread.

I was talking about Multiple Personality Disorder and 'split brain disorders' and the fact that mainstream psychiatry does not accept their existence.

Do you know who is that guy on the video I've posted? And who are those mainstream psychiatrists you are talking about? Could you quote one that will support your statement?
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 8:05 pm

They are the people I spend much of my working life with.
I was quoting from a recent statement from the Royal College Of Psychiatry ( which holds the professional register of UK psychiatrists ) at a conference I attended.
It is easily googled if you are interested.
That particular statement came from one of my colleagues, Dr Helen Tyler who has a training and policy making role within the College.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 8:12 pm

There is nothing about the slit-brain in your quote.
Ok, let me help you with this one, because I see that you have difficulties understanding the subject.

Each hemisphere is indeed a conscious system in its own right, perceiving, thinking, remembering, reasoning, willing, and emoting, all at a characteristically human level, and . . . both the left and the right hemisphere may be conscious simultaneously in different, even in mutually conflicting, mental experiences that run along in parallel
—Roger Sperry
Last edited by oushi on Mon May 19, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 8:21 pm

I have no idea what the 'slit brain' is.

I suspect that you mean 'split brain ' which a crude term for various postulated conditions that come under the general heading of Multiple Personality Disorders..
None of which are accepted as genuine by British psychiatry.

I suggest that you do a little reading around the subject and then we might be able to have a conversation about the issues.

But don't just accept the pop psychology of journalists.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 8:32 pm

Simon E. wrote:I have no idea what the 'slit brain' is.

Indeed.
I suspect that you mean 'split brain ' which a crude term for various postulated conditions that come under the general heading of Multiple Personality Disorders..

You should have watched the video I've posted before you started commenting.

Simon E. wrote:I suggest that you do a little reading around the subject and then we might be able to have a conversation about the issues.

You have no idea about split-brain patients and you advice me to do a little reading around the subject? :crazy:
I had a similar discussion with Greg, where he stated that split-brain theories are fanciful, childish and ridiculous. You both seems to be "well" informed, and first to comment.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 8:39 pm

Yes.
You are talking to an experienced professional involved in the sphere.

Research the difference between organic lesions and the tentative proposed idea of 'Multiple Personality'. Which was the actual topic under discussion on the thread before you posted the video.

You can then discuss the matter in an informed way.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 8:45 pm

Simon E. wrote:Yes.
You are talking to an experienced professional involved in the sphere.

I am talking to a person that has no idea about the subject he is commenting with pride.
Research the difference between organic lesions and the tentative proposed idea of 'Multiple Personality'. Which was the actual topic under discussion on the thread before you posted the video.

I am too lazy to read your posts again, but if I search for "multiple personality" it appears after the video...
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 9:00 pm

Oushi..go back and watch the film you posted..is is about SPLIT brain syndrome...nothing to do with SLIT brains.

It is about what happens if the corpus callosum, which divides the brain into two hemispheres, is split by trauma or occasionally by surgery...and the resulting illusion that the subject has of operating from two separate centres..it is an entirely physical process.
And although interesting does not directly relate to what Lindama and myself were talking about which is a psychological phenomenon that does not relate to physical changes.
Which is what Greg was trying to point out to you.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Simon E. » Mon May 19, 2014 9:05 pm

reddust wrote:I think understanding these terms will help you figure out what the unconscious mind means in Buddhist terms. Unconscious is used all the time in Buddhism. That's where the Student has to do some research and find out what these words mean in a Buddhist context.

In the first (passive) sense saṅkhāra can refer to any compound form in the universe whether a tree, a cloud, a human being, a thought or a molecule. All these are saṅkhāras. The Buddha taught that all such things are impermanent, arising and passing away, subject to change, and that understanding the significance of this reality is wisdom. Saṅkhāra is often used in this first sense to describe the psychological conditioning (particularly the habit patterns of the unconscious mind) that gives any individual human being his or her unique character and make-up at any given time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81ra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citta. Mind. Cittānupassanā-observation of the mind. See sati-paṭṭhāna




saṅkhāra. (Mental) formation; volitional activity; mental reaction; mental conditioning. One of the four aggregates or processes of the mind, along with viññaṇa, saññā, and vedanā. (Sanskrit samskāra.)

One of my favorites cittas to talk about is the mysterious bhavanga citta, just for the kicks and giggles. :tongue: https://www.academia.edu/2121454/Study_ ... ess_Sleep_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



bump


This is a post just before the video you posted. It bears only the remotest relationship to the results of brain trauma.
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