McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby Luke » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:21 pm

Here McKenna is talking about his theory.

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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby Lindama » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:57 pm

interesting nutritional theory

I have read somewhere that there is a nutritional explanation/theory for modern man's smaller jaw structures, thus facial structure.
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby oushi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:02 am

Even if we knew all answers, and was able to validate all theories, then what? That's what I think is important. Not where is leaves us, but where it lead us. If we look at Terrence theories, they all creating an opening for better future of mankind. That is the crux of his work, not the small peripheral theories making the ground on which we are standing.
What is important, and he mentioned it many times, is the fact that we don't have time. We are galloping toward the cliff, and ideas that needs centuries, or decades to bring change are not going to help. Although psychedelics may be limited, they can change mans behavior in one trip. That was his belief, and his agenda for fellow humans. You may say he was misguided, but I think he was straight to the point talking about the real problems threatening us all. Go ask a lama, or anyone you wish, to use his insights to remove the problems that are threatening us today. Mantras will not remove dozens of nuclear missiles recently deployed in Kaliningrad by Russians, or help the nature to regenerate. Only sudden and direct change in the global perspective can help here. I would like to believe that Buddhism, or any other religions can make a difference, but 90% of mankind are already believers. Religion may work for an individual, but it does not work for society. 2500 years, and less then 5% share, will not save humanity. Soon there may be no Earth to take rebirth on.
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby smcj » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:12 am

In the U.S. the psychedelic revolution has already happened. It's over. What came of it? Millions and millions of people tripping did effect society. It had to. How so? Well, people running around in the woods stoned began to appreciate nature, and see how urbanization was ugly. So the environmental movement started. Hungry tripsters got grossed out on eating hotdogs, so health foods came into fashion. People had their limited views smashed, so a lot of social rules became challenged, sexual behavior included. The ugliness of war was seen through the propaganda, and the anti-war movement was fueled. People found out that their minds could experience life in different ways, so eastern religions gained interest, and so on. (Plus some interesting rock'n'roll was played.)

And of course lives were ruined, and all that stuff. It's not as if psychedelics, and empathics, ever completely left society, but they're not going to do much more to improve it.
Soon there may be no Earth to take rebirth on.

True, and it would be a real shame to have to start out all over again as blue-green slime somewhere else.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby oushi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:45 am

smcj wrote:And of course lives were ruined, and all that stuff. It's not as if psychedelics, and empathics, ever completely left society, but they're not going to do much more to improve it.

How can you tell? The "open window" for the major psychedelics was less then two decades. They were seen as incredibly effective devices in the psychiatric environment, banned before science really got his grip on them. We may have some experience with this or that substance, but we have to admit that psychedelics is a wild, unknown world. Terence claimed that exploring it can bring great benefit for humanity.
Discarding it, is like despising Columbus and banning sailing, because some people don't know how to swim. He brought some spices, vegetables, and gold, but exploring Americas is not going to do much more good... ;)
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby smcj » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:58 am

What would you say to someone that was enthusiastic about communism? Wouldn't you say to him that it has been tried again and again, but it never works? Forget the hype, forget the promises, history has proved it just doesn't work. If they end up quoting Karl Marx, or Lenin, or Chariman Mao, does that change things?

BTW modern China is not communist anymore. It went from being a left wing dictatorship to being a right wing dictatorship IMHO.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby oushi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:20 pm

smcj wrote:What would you say to someone that was enthusiastic about communism? Wouldn't you say to him that it has been tried again and again, but it never works? Forget the hype, forget the promises, history has proved it just doesn't work. If they end up quoting Karl Marx, or Lenin, or Chariman Mao, does that change things?

BTW modern China is not communist anymore. It went from being a left wing dictatorship to being a right wing dictatorship IMHO.

Beside the fact that Terence was a dedicated Marxist before he recovered, I don't see any relevance to the topic.

What I would say? Nothing, because I respect the freedom of views. As long as someone is not limiting the freedom of others, he can be enthusiastic about anything. Communist approach would be to forbid something he is not agreeing with and if it does not benefit others in the way he would like to benefit them. That's what is happening now. Socialism is coming back, because Marx was right saying that if you want to establish socialism, implementing democracy is enough. China is not communist anymore, the western world is not communist yet. It isn't right to say that communism never worked, because even if you see China as not communist anymore, it transformed into it's present state from communism, so it worked as transformation device.
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:30 pm

smcj wrote:In the U.S. the psychedelic revolution has already happened. It's over. What came of it? Millions and millions of people tripping did effect society. It had to. How so? Well, people running around in the woods stoned began to appreciate nature, and see how urbanization was ugly. So the environmental movement started. Hungry tripsters got grossed out on eating hotdogs, so health foods came into fashion. People had their limited views smashed, so a lot of social rules became challenged, sexual behavior included. The ugliness of war was seen through the propaganda, and the anti-war movement was fueled. People found out that their minds could experience life in different ways, so eastern religions gained interest, and so on. (Plus some interesting rock'n'roll was played.)

And of course lives were ruined, and all that stuff. It's not as if psychedelics, and empathics, ever completely left society, but they're not going to do much more to improve it.
Soon there may be no Earth to take rebirth on.

True, and it would be a real shame to have to start out all over again as blue-green slime somewhere else.
And look at where America is now. That whole psychedelic scene was a ten (maybe twenty) year blip on the American cultural/political scene.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory

Postby Luke » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:And look at where America is now. That whole psychedelic scene was a ten (maybe twenty) year blip on the American cultural/political scene.

Yes, unfortunately much of the radical and forward-looking thinking that was embraced by hippies and others in the 1960s in the US was ultimately suppressed by the elites and then under their coercion, things went pretty much back to business as usual.

There are still are all kinds of amazing ordinary people out there. The problem is just that most of them will never be able to get enough power to actually change anything.

I guess one other reason why McKenna was important was that he was a voice and a positive symbol for many of the free-thinking, kind-hearted, and environmentally aware people around the world.
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