It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Anything goes (almost).

It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

It's a sign! - just when I needed it most, I got a sign inexplicably from the universe or something!
11
37%
Magical thinking is stupid! - be logical & you won't find yourself in such desperate situations, clinging to such desperate nonsense.
19
63%
 
Total votes : 30

It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:33 am

ssia
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby justsit » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:39 am

Yes! This thread is a sign it's time to go to bed. Thanks!

'Nite all. :zzz:
User avatar
justsit
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:01 am

sounds like magical thinking
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby smcj » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:12 am

"Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

'Scarlet Begonias' by the Grateful Dead
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Paul » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:43 am

Magical thinking is useless as it ignores the real cause of events. So it actually leaves a person disempowered. I guess you could say that samsara is nothing but magical thinking.
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
User avatar
Paul
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby kirtu » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:50 am

Not, both and neither. Magical thinking itself is harmful. However reality is deeply interdependent on many different levels (levels being a relative description).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4367
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:44 pm

I think magical thinking is stupid. Now you'll have to excuse me coz it's Naga day today and it has been raining cats and dogs since this morning, so I better go do some offerings before we start flooding. Hey! What do you know. Just thinking about it has caused the rain to stop already! It's a sign! Oh... it just started again.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9200
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:10 pm

kirtu wrote:Not, both and neither. Magical thinking itself is harmful. However reality is deeply interdependent on many different levels (levels being a relative description).

Kirt


i would count that interdependent origination and experience thinking on any level as a logical thought process.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:08 pm

I voted in favor of magical thinking, lol.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2399
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby futerko » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:14 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I voted in favor of magical thinking, lol.


I'm still waiting for sign to let me know which way to vote. :tongue:
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
User avatar
futerko
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:14 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I voted in favor of magical thinking, lol.

I honestly am not sure... I like some of the answers above, though.

What prompted me to consider it was observing some incredibly stupid decisions by people I know. One said "it's a sign that it was meant to happen this way" and I've heard that from this person so many times over the past 12 years that his life flashed before my eyes. I thought, "you're in a marriage you wouldn't be in if you could do it over, with a child you wouldn't have if you could do it over, living in your mom's house and your mom drives you nuts, and like a hundred grand in debt... maybe it's time to stop thinking like this and start making decisions based on logic." Then, I thought of the George Michael song "gotta have faith" and I thought that if you don't have faith, you can be hopeless and not want to proceed with your life.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:19 pm

I don't know yeah...i've known many people who make similar decisions based on "signs from the universe" and whatnot, on the level it's usually presented it seems really naive. I'm not sure why we'd need "signs" for mundane decisions that can simply be figured out anyway.In that case it can be a simple way of avoiding taking responsibility, which can't be good.

On the other hand, If you accept the Mahayana position that Karmic seeds can be burnt up and whatnot, to some degree it is a kind of 'magical thinking', in that you relationship to your phenomena is bound to change, you begin to attract certain things, repel certain things etc. It's not really a "sign" that someone put there or something, it's more like being able to see with some clarity where things are headed....or why they happened. So i'm not sure that actual decision making (like moving out of Mom's house) is contrary to seeing signs of changing Karma, it doesn't mean you stop making normal decisions. Personally i've had number of "this cannot be coincidence" things lately, I didn't base any decisions on them because i'd already made the decisions, but the events did confirm for me that i'd made the right decisions in the first place.

Anyway, hard to explain. I usually get really irritated with people who talk about signs from the universe that told them they should get a certain dog toy or whatever, but I have to confess my own way of navigating life is also not one that's just based on WYSIWYG logic.
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2399
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Oh look, it's stopped raining again! It's a sign that the practice went well and the Naga are happy! I knew I was on the right track!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9200
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby rachmiel » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:26 pm

Believing in fairy tales (i.e., anything) is trouble.

Make-believing in fairy tales can help you stay on target.

Anam Thubten described emptiness as absence of concepts. But he often said that, if you're going to hold onto one concept, let it be enlightenment.
gone gone gone
User avatar
rachmiel
 
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:05 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:51 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:Oh look, it's stopped raining again! It's a sign that the practice went well and the Naga are happy! I knew I was on the right track!

Do you believe this or are you being sarcastic or are you trying to illustrate that it may be a useful way of thinking "as if" and might actually work real observable results if you act "as if"?
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
User avatar
padma norbu
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:10 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby smcj » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Ok, so how many people throw the I-Ching? Isn't that magical thinking too? Or having Lama Dawa throw a mo?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby conebeckham » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:00 pm

"There are more things on heaven and earth, Padma Norbu, then are dreamt of in your philosophy."

-Wille the Shake


Seriously, though......there's "magical thinking," and then there is the limit of conceptual mind to comprehend the finer workings of interdependent origination. When "something" happens, it could, indeed, "be a sign"--though a sign of what, we don't know....and in the end, "signs" are merely mental signifiers, with no separate reality aside from the mind that signifies.

People who "poo poo" so-called Magical Thinking think they can explain and understand everything rationally, and conceptually, and that the dreamers are out of touch with the way things are. I say "no" to that. On the other hand, most Magical Thinking is ego-based in the final analysis, and usually has no basis in a true comprehension of interdependant origination--it's merely ego's "dream" as it were. Both rationalists, and our more, shall we say, "creative" types, are wrong. That's why there's no correct answer to your poll.

:tongue:
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby smcj » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:08 pm

Both rationalists, and our more, shall we say, "creative" types, are wrong. That's why there's no correct answer to your poll.

One thing I think we can safely say is that making too much of a drama out of it, i.e. becoming attached to it, is a mistake. Just like in sports you've got to "keep your eye on the ball".
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby tatpurusa » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:35 pm

What if you consider yogacara?..?. :pig:
tatpurusa
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:17 am

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby smcj » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:37 pm

tatpurusa wrote:What if you consider yogacara?..?. :pig:

Huh? What about yogacara?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Next

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 10 guests

>