I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 1204
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby seeker242 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:10 pm

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Seishin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:10 pm


User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Grigoris » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:38 pm

My problem is not with the existence of an afterlife life, but with the existence of a present life. I remember being told about a slogan scrawled on a wall in Northern Ireland that asked: Is their life before death?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:19 pm

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby smcj » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:48 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:15 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Seishin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:28 pm


User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Wayfarer » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:09 pm

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:54 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Wayfarer » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:36 am

I see what you mean but it is a very difficult idea to grasp. That is similar to the point I was trying to get across in I started on the topic.

On this theme, though, I was given a copy of a book called recently. It has been a huge seller. It was very vividly written, but I must admit, I couldn't finish it. It isn't that I don't believe such things could happen, more that I think curiosity and speculation about it is a little unseemly, really.

However I came to the view a long while ago, that one's life is part of the unfolding of a greater story than simply the episode that takes place between a particular birth and death. But I don't spend time debating it.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Aemilius » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:29 am

svaha

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby Wayfarer » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:39 am

I especially like this one:

'We live in a moment in history where change is so speeded up that we only begin to see the present only when it is already dissappearing.'


Now, where was I.......
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

undefineable
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:34 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby undefineable » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:13 pm


KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:18 pm

i havent read the conversation , but the afterlife for enlightened and unenlightened should be very different experience, basically the reason why you incarnate again randomly could be that you are clinging to independently existing self. you are clinging to i and me and mine so that is what you experience even after death.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby conebeckham » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:32 pm

If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is.
It's amusing fodder for discussion, though. Thus far, no one's "proven" anything, in any direction, except that some people are very attached to their views, and will go to some lengths to convince others. Meanwhile, the wheel keeps turning.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

undefineable
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:34 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby undefineable » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:39 pm

Last edited by undefineable on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:41 pm

gandy, buddhism is quite in good relationship with quantum physics

and in physics it is proved that energy cannot disappear, energy is always there and you can not get rid of it. also in physics they are having studies and conversations that is everything just consciousness because without consciousness nothing can be experienced. or to say to exist. now consciousness and pure energy has to be in a interrelationship working together intertwined. and you could logically argue that you experience energy in your consciousness and others experience your energy in theyre consciousness. so that kinda proves that energy and consciousness are hand in hand.

now if you think that you are your body and your consciousness is a chemical component product of this body. you cant really prove that so thats an actually a belief that people take granted, and could be equally arguable subject as rebirth. if you examine with your consciousness you cant locate yourself anywhere in this body if you put it to pieces you will not even find a body, a mere label called body, fingers , that are actually atoms and smaller than that. then if you look outside and see a building on the other side of the road, but you are your body and thats it. how come your mind can be and see the building and be there. the physical process when you die and disintegrate your parts become a part of the whole again, but even the components of your body do not disappear they just transform. so if you view nakedly reality you cant find any boundary between the air and the start of your fingers, they are intertwined and intimately interconnected. so you can come to know from experience that ''you'' are not limited to this body only. reality is larger than you. so if you die and you die that doesnt mean that reality dies, or that energy and consciousness goes into non existence.

i think this comes down to the most common misconception. that we think we are existing independtly of everything else and that we are totally disconnected from everything else. that other human being is not a part of me. that world is not a part of me. i am existing independently. but its totally the other way around, we are existing interdependently and in relation to everything else. and i have come to a conclusion that even though we die, we die, its the end of our independent existence. that disappears. so if you believe in that you can argue that there is nothing after death. nothing at all because you were independently existing thing and if the independent part ceases to exist there is nothing left. but that again is the misunderstanding of how things exist. together, interconnected, intertwined and parts of the whole. and by this reasoning you could argue that the whole does not go into non existence and that the independent existence may cease to exist disappear go into non existence, but then again the independent existence was an idea that we made reality, but not the truth necessarily so then the true nature of everything comes into being in some way meaning that the part of the whole that died only transformed into something else.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

undefineable
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:34 am

Re: I have some proof here that there's no afterlife

Postby undefineable » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:59 pm

@KonchokZoepa: If every aspect of everything were completely interconnected, then how could there be any form of literal rebirth? Consciousness appears to itself to exist independently, and is said to experience rebirth as part of this delusion; a Buddha, on the other hand, rightly seeing things as fundamentally interconnected, has no need to be reborn :shrug: :thinking:


Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests