Buddhist oracle?

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Buddhist oracle?

Postby padma norbu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:09 am

I know there is a type of divination called Mo which you can do with dice or a mala, but I am wondering if there is any other way to get an answer from any buddhas with any sort of reliability as just a regular shmo. I feel like it's something I shouldn't waste too much time on, but sometimes I just feel like it would be great to be able to ask a specific question and have no doubt about the right decision to make. I think most people will probably answer to consult the sutras or consult my guru and yet I still decided to ask the question anyway. Googling around, I don't see anything and I'm guessing there's not much out there for Buddhist oracles. Perhaps I will flip a coin like the psycho in American Perfekt.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Ayu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:35 pm

This desire for asking is wellknown for me...

I have 3 types of asking, they all are combined with meditation.

1) I Ging. I think, it is not buddhist, but it is very wise. But one has to meditate the sayings and pictures, because if i get an answer and i don't listen thoroughly (meditate) i might missunderstand what has being said.

2) "Demon Feeding" with the help of the book of Tsultrim Allione. Caution: one shouldn't try it without the correct instruction. Without a clear route it might be a very heavy medicine.
It is good, if there are questions like : "How to get rid of this certain fear?" Or "Where does this weakness come from?"

3) I go into deep shamata and then ask myself the question. Then i only listen and wait, and accept every absurd answer... If i get out into waking conciousness, the answers are often astonishing good.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Dorje Shedrub » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:40 pm

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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Kim O'Hara » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:51 pm

When I visited Doi Suthep, the mountain-top wat near Chiang Mai, I saw divination being practiced - a system based on drawing numbers and referring to pre-printed response sheets, IIRC. That's Theravada, of course, but I think it's probably also specifically Thai. Either way, you may find out more on the other DW.

That said, I don't believe that divination works except by helping you to clear and focus your own mind, as in Ayu's first and third methods above.

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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby padma norbu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:31 pm

Thanks... I would think some oracles are very accurate and not just a way to focus your mind or whatever.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Dorje Shedrub » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:41 pm

HHDL often consults oracles and at least one of them has a cabinet position.

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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Ayu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:54 pm

If one realizes that ultimately everything is just in a certain way projected by the mind - then all these things make sense.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby padma norbu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:12 pm

Ayu wrote:If one realizes that ultimately everything is just in a certain way projected by the mind - then all these things make sense.


However an oracle works is beyond my comprehension. There are some human Buddhist oracles (Nechung Oracle, for example) who become possessed with a particular non-human entity and there are some others are very skilled with Mo or mirror gazing, etc. I have had experience with other oracles that have been uncannily accurate, but it's not the same as knowing you are consulting the Buddhas. If I ask Manjusri a question and get an uncannily accurate response, I am inclined to trust the answer completely. Know what I mean?
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Kim O'Hara » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:54 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:HHDL often consults oracles and at least one of them has a cabinet position.

Shedrub

That "oracle" is a person. None of the others mentioned so far are people.
If we want to be accurate, the thread title is wrong - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oracle shows that the proper meaning of "oracle" is, in fact, a person or their shrine or utterances.
All the other methods really should be called methods of "divination", i.e. "the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers," from the same dictionary.

:reading:
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:23 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Dorje Shedrub wrote:HHDL often consults oracles and at least one of them has a cabinet position.

Shedrub

That "oracle" is a person. None of the others mentioned so far are people.
If we want to be accurate, the thread title is wrong - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oracle shows that the proper meaning of "oracle" is, in fact, a person or their shrine or utterances.
All the other methods really should be called methods of "divination", i.e. "the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers," from the same dictionary.

:reading:
Kim


Tarot is called an oracle as is I Ching. Perhaps the term is used wrongly in these instances, but that's what I was actually referring to. I don't consider a human oracle who becomes possessed really any different than someone who uses tarot unfailingly. The same thing is accomplished. The only stipulation I was looking for is that it be Buddhist and be accessible for a "regular shmo." I am thankful for the response about Lama Dawa as I will probably utilize that link when he comes out of retreat. I was however looking for another Mo type of thing to use since I have no idea how to skry my melong.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Kim O'Hara » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:16 am

padma norbu wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Dorje Shedrub wrote:HHDL often consults oracles and at least one of them has a cabinet position.

Shedrub

That "oracle" is a person. None of the others mentioned so far are people.
If we want to be accurate, the thread title is wrong - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oracle shows that the proper meaning of "oracle" is, in fact, a person or their shrine or utterances.
All the other methods really should be called methods of "divination", i.e. "the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers," from the same dictionary.

:reading:
Kim


Tarot is called an oracle as is I Ching. Perhaps the term is used wrongly in these instances, but that's what I was actually referring to. I don't consider a human oracle who becomes possessed really any different than someone who uses tarot unfailingly. The same thing is accomplished. The only stipulation I was looking for is that it be Buddhist and be accessible for a "regular shmo." I am thankful for the response about Lama Dawa as I will probably utilize that link when he comes out of retreat. I was however looking for another Mo type of thing to use since I have no idea how to skry my melong.

Hmm.
Lama Dawa's site says:
In Tibet, various systems of divination have been used for thousands of years. Since the 8th century, when Buddhism began taking root in Tibet, these divination methods were re-framed in accordance with the laws of karma and the Buddhist principles of compassionate activity to benefit beings.

That is, his divination methods are not actually Buddhist but pre-Buddhist (Bon?) and have been adopted and adapted. AFAIK, divination is not encouraged anywhere in the sutras.

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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:11 pm

Ayu wrote:3) I go into deep shamata and then ask myself the question. Then i only listen and wait, and accept every absurd answer... If i get out into waking conciousness, the answers are often astonishing good.
I do something similar. I imagine a person in front of me and discuss matters with it and sometimes the figure will ask leading questions or point out things that I haven't noticed before.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Re: Buddhist oracle?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:59 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:That is, his divination methods are not actually Buddhist but pre-Buddhist (Bon?) and have been adopted and adapted. AFAIK, divination is not encouraged anywhere in the sutras.


I'm cool with that. Pretty sure Mo and Melong divinition come from pre-Buddhist traditions as well, but the Mo practice I am familiar with does request answers from Manjushri.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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